SwordSage + Monk = 2x Wis AC bonus?

[pawsplay]

Which only proves my point that we are providing the necessary words to make the two equivalent because the authors forgot how to consistently use descriptors.

And it technically should be modifier as a bonus to. . . . Which would make it not a "typed bonus" at all.

Smite also uses Cha bonus and the terms are pretty much used interchangeably thorughout the rules - but that doesn't make it correct. Especially when talking about typed bonuses. One way they are not typed and another they are and yet the two are used interchangeably.

It doesn't matter. "Wisdom" is not a type of bonus. Both wordings are untyped bonuses.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It doesn't matter. "Wisdom" is not a type of bonus.

What makes you say that?

-Hyp.

 

[pawsplay]

What makes you say that?

-Hyp.

The books actually list all the bonus types used in the core books.

 

[Corsair]

The books actually list all the bonus types used in the core books.

So if I have a first level 14 strength fighter with a shortsword and I hit you for 1d6+2 damage, what is that +2 bonus to damage called?

 

[Vlad Le Démon]

Paladin & Blackguard

From the SRD: A Paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who wilfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities.

From the SRD: Alignement: Any Evil

Only Dark Blessing is functioning for a Paladin/Blackguard.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Right, it's a moot question. I had read the Sword Sage as "no more than light armor" instead of "light armor."

Hmmm. This means means the dervish IMC who was toying with swordsage would have to forgo his bracers of armor and put on some "real" armor. He'd stopped wearing it b/c of dex bonus limitations.

 

[satori01]

A good example to illustrate some differences is a Paladin's Divine Grace, and a Blackguard's Dark Blessing.

At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

A blackguard applies his Charisma modifier (if positive) as a bonus on all saving throws.

N

N
-Hyp.

I disagree with your interpertation. I do not think the designers parced their text in such a fine tooth manner. Both lines read to me as adding an unnamed bonus to saves = to the CHA modifier.

Change the word "Modifier" to "bonus" in the Blackguard line and it reads the same as before. Of course being unnamed bonuses, they would stack, but If you SOMEHOW pull off being a Paladin/Blackguard you are going to need all the help you can get, because everyone is after you, (assuming of course no variant Pallys in Unearthed Arcana).

 

[Thanatos]

Well, I don't know about all this Blackguard and Paladin discussion, but I do know this:

From this link: http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?.../showpost.php?p=9899969&postcount=227&origin=

Q: Alright, so the Swordsage's AC Bonus ability states "Starting at 2nd level, you can add you Wisdom modifer as a bonus to Armor Class, so long as you wear light armor, are encumbered, and do not use a shield."

Does this mean that you can't use this ability when you are unarmored, ONLY in light armor? By RAW it does but... is it a mistake for errata, should I inform my DM that it works with no armor as well?

A:The intent is that you get this benefit whether you are wearing light armor or are unarmored. I will pass this issue along to the appropriate departments for potential errata treatment. Of course your DM is allowed to rule however he/she wishes. Thank you for bringing this to our attention!


and no link on this one, but its from an email on page 9 of this thread: http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=683775


Q: Does a Swordsage 4/Sorcerer 4 with the Ascetic Mage feat add his Wisdom to his AC or his Charisma? What if the character was instead a Swordsage 4/Sorcerer 4/Monk 4 (thus getting his Wisdom to AC through 2 sources: Swordsage and Monk)?

Heck if I had a Swordsage 4/Monk 4 would he add his Wisdom to his AC twice?

A: A Swrodsage gets to add wisdom to AC and the Ascetic Sorcerer would add Charisma, both are applied. A Swordsage Monk uses the same addition, but it does not apply twice. Each class lets you use the stat modifier to increase your AC, but this does not mean you get to use it twice. All Classes get to add their Dex modifiers to there AC, but when you multi class you do not add it again for each class that you have.

 

[pawsplay]

So if I have a first level 14 strength fighter with a shortsword and I hit you for 1d6+2 damage, what is that +2 bonus to damage called?

Your Str bonus added to the damage. I am not disputing that the source of the bonus is a particular ability score, but it is not a typed bonus. It just adds. For instance, the Base Attack Bonus stacks with other sources of the base attack bonus. The BAB of a class actually increases the attack bonus, it is not a typed bonus that modifies a roll.

 

[irdeggman]

The books actually list all the bonus types used in the core books.

Quoted for truth.

Also


Pg 21 of the DMG listed all of the bonus types that existed at the time (true some more have been added but at the time that was an all-inclusive list). The “fact” that the core rules interchangeably used the term ability bonuses when the actual text should have been a bonus equal to ability modifier indicates that there is an inconsistency here. If these were in fact a “typed” bonus then they would have been listed in the list of bonus types in the DMG – but they weren’t which supports the stance that they are not bonus types.


DMG pg 21.
“These bonuses are classified by type, and each type is briefly described below.”


Alright so if that isn’t sufficient let’s look somewhere else to see if there is other text to support this stance.


Complete Arcane pg 8 under Ninja and AC bonus.

“When unarmored and unencumbered, a ninja adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to here Armor Class. This ability does not stack with the monk’s AC bonus ability (a ninja with levels of monk does not add the bonus twice).”

Now if this was indeed a “typed” bonus this statement is totally unnecessary since bonuses of the same “type” do not stack unless specifically stated otherwise.