SwordSage + Monk = 2x Wis AC bonus?

[pawsplay]

If i recall correctly, the sword sage only gets the bonus in light armor.

I'm sure it would not be difficult to bust that requirement.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If it is an unnamed bonus, and they do not come from an ability with the same name and most of the same text, they stack.

But the Monk's isn't an unnamed bonus; it's a Wisdom bonus.

I don't have ToB, so I don't know how the Sword Saint's ability is worded.

-Hyp.

 

[Xarls Taunzund]

would you say the same thing about monk and saint templit

No, the Saint template quite specifically specifies that you gain "an insight bonus to AC equal to the character's Wisdom bonus". As an insight bonus it would stack with the monk's Wisdom bonus to AC, though it would not stack with other insight bonuses, such as those gained from a certain Ioun Stone or from the Foresight spell (though you would still gain the insight bonus to Reflex saves), instead the highest insight bonus would apply.

 

[irdeggman]

But the Monk's isn't an unnamed bonus; it's a Wisdom bonus.

I don't have ToB, so I don't know how the Sword Saint's ability is worded.

-Hyp.

What pray tell is a Wisdom bonus?

It is actually a Wisdom "modifier".

There is already a text inconsistency here.

It should technically be a bonus equal to her Wisdom modifier.

But the actual definition of Wisdom bonus isn't really there - it is something our minds are filling in. Wisdom modifer = Wisdom Bonus.

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

ABILITY MODIFIERS
Each ability, after changes made because of race, has a modifier ranging from –5 to +5. Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells shows the modifier for each score. It also shows bonus spells, which you’ll need to know about if your character is a spellcaster.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What pray tell is a Wisdom bonus?

A positive Wisdom modifier.

The rules speak repeatedly of denying Dexterity bonus to AC, adding Strength bonus to damage, an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus, etc, etc.

Indeed, under 'The Abilities', not far from where you drew your quote, we find:
Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only one-half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)

A positive [Ability] modifier is an [Ability] bonus; a negative [Ability] modifier is an [Ability] penalty. If you discard this, you introduce lots of problems into the Core rules...

It should technically be a bonus equal to her Wisdom modifier.

Or, as the Blackguard, "applies her Wisdom modifier (if positive) as a bonus to AC".

But since [Ability] bonus is a term used throughout the books, I don't see a need to change the Monk description.

-Hyp.

 

[ohGr]

Monk's AC Bonus ability:

When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC.

Swordsage's AC Bonus ability:

Starting at 2nd level, you can add your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to Armor Class, so long as you wear light armor, are unencumbered, and do not use a shield.

So, unless you can find some way to wear light armour but somehow not be considered to be wearing armour, i'd say it's somewhat of a moot point at this juncture. If one were to somehow manage such a feat, however, given the wording, they would stack.

 

[pawsplay]

So the monk does not gainany particular kind of bonus ; rather, their AC is increased by a bonus. I can't think of anything that wouldn't stack with, apart from an identical ability, such as the ninja's, which is defined as not stacking.

I believe, if you were wearing light armor, and became incorporeal, the bonuses would stack.

 

[ThirdWizard]

What pray tell is a Wisdom bonus?

It is actually a Wisdom "modifier".

There is already a text inconsistency here.

I don't think there is an inconsistancy. I believe that is there to mean that they do not get a penalty to AC if their Wisdom is below 10. They only get the bonus (which is a defined term, I believe).

EDIT: that's what I get for leaving hte window open for so long and not checking to see if there have been replies in the meantime.

 

[irdeggman]

A positive Wisdom modifier.

The rules speak repeatedly of denying Dexterity bonus to AC, adding Strength bonus to damage, an additional number of languages equal to your starting Intelligence bonus, etc, etc.

Indeed, under 'The Abilities', not far from where you drew your quote, we find:
Exceptions: Off-hand attacks receive only one-half the character’s Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive one and a half times the Strength bonus. A Strength penalty, but not a bonus, applies to attacks made with a bow that is not a composite bow.)

A positive [Ability] modifier is an [Ability] bonus; a negative [Ability] modifier is an [Ability] penalty. If you discard this, you introduce lots of problems into the Core rules...



Or, as the Blackguard, "applies her Wisdom modifier (if positive) as a bonus to AC".

But since [Ability] bonus is a term used throughout the books, I don't see a need to change the Monk description.

-Hyp.

Which only proves my point that we are providing the necessary words to make the two equivalent because the authors forgot how to consistently use descriptors.

And it technically should be modifier as a bonus to. . . . Which would make it not a "typed bonus" at all.

Smite also uses Cha bonus and the terms are pretty much used interchangeably thorughout the rules - but that doesn't make it correct. Especially when talking about typed bonuses. One way they are not typed and another they are and yet the two are used interchangeably.

 

[FrostedMini1337]

No, the Saint template quite specifically specifies that you gain "an insight bonus to AC equal to the character's Wisdom bonus". As an insight bonus it would stack with the monk's Wisdom bonus to AC, though it would not stack with other insight bonuses, such as those gained from a certain Ioun Stone or from the Foresight spell (though you would still gain the insight bonus to Reflex saves), instead the highest insight bonus would apply.

Unless there has been eratta that I am unaware of, it's not insight.

Mine lists it as an untyped bonus.