SwordSage + Monk = 2x Wis AC bonus?

[kigmatzomat]

One of my players (monk with a high wis) is looking at ToB's Sword Sage. He has yet to notice that it provides an AC bonus based on wis that, from what I can tell, is untyped. Am I missing something or will he really get to use his (no magic) 20 Wis + 16 dex +3 monk AC bonus to have an AC of 26 (10+ 5wis +5wis +3 dex + 3 monk) bare naked?

 

[Infiniti2000]

They're still from the same source (Wisdom). It's just that two different classes offer that same source.

As an example, any character benefits from Dex to AC, but a multiclass character doesn't get twice his Dex to AC.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

would you say the same thing about monk and saint templit

 

[irdeggman]

They're still from the same source (Wisdom). It's just that two different classes offer that same source.

As an example, any character benefits from Dex to AC, but a multiclass character doesn't get twice his Dex to AC.

Unless there is something different in the text I would have to disagree. The text may have language that gives an indication as to whether or not the bonuses should be cumulative.

These are class abilities not a bonus that applies regardless of class - like Dex bonus to AC. Dex bonus to AC is not listed for each class as a class ability.

Not having them all apply is like saying that a fighter 1/ranger 1 only gets a +1 BAb since they are from the same source (i.e, a class ability).

 

[starwed]

The sword sage ability is supposedly (IDHMBRN) worded in such a way that it only applies while wearing light armor. So it's completely orthagonal to a monk's ability; they should never function at the same time.

They're still from the same source (Wisdom). It's just that two different classes offer that same source.

While it isn't stated anywhere in the RAW, and I don't like the particular example I2k chose, this is still a very reasonable policy for a DM to make.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A good example to illustrate some differences is a Paladin's Divine Grace, and a Blackguard's Dark Blessing.

At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

A blackguard applies his Charisma modifier (if positive) as a bonus on all saving throws.

Note the difference. The Paladin is passing by value, but the blackguard passes by reference. The Paladin creates an entirely new unnamed bonus which happens to have the same value as his Charisma bonus, while the Blackguard takes the already-existing Charisma bonus and applies it to his saving throws.

So the Paladin's Will Save might be:
+4 (base) +2 (Wisdom) +1 (Resistance) +3 (unnamed),
while the Blackguard's is:
+4 (base) +2 (Wisdom) +1 (Resistance) +3 (Charisma).

Now, let's say we have a PrC that also applies Charisma bonus to saving throws, and both these two characters take a level in the PrC.

Now we have the Paladin/PrC:
+4 (base) +2 (Wisdom) +1 (Resistance) +3 (unnamed) +3 (Charisma),
and the Blackguard/PrC:
+4 (base) +2 (Wisdom) +1 (Resistance) +3 (Charisma) +3 (Charisma).

Note that the Blackguard/PrC now has two named bonuses that do not stack, while the Paladin has one named Charisma bonus, and one unnamed bonus equal to his Charisma bonus... which stack.

The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC. So it will not stack with any other Wisdom bonus to AC; however, it will stack with a bonus equal to his Wisdom bonus to AC, should a PrC provide such.

Another one to watch out for is the Duelist, who does not add his Int bonus to AC; rather he adds his Int bonus to his Dex bonus to AC.

A Duelist with a Dex of 12 and an Int of 12 does not have an AC of:
10 (base) +1 (Dexterity) +1 (Intelligence);
rather, he has an AC of
10 (base) +2 (Dexterity),
because his Int bonus modifies his Dex bonus to AC, not his AC. So the duelist's Canny Defense will actually stack with an ability that adds Int bonus to AC, because while the bonuses have the same name, they are modifying different scores.

-Hyp.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

A blackguard applies his Charisma modifier (if positive) as a bonus on all saving throws.

I kind of see what you’re getting at, but I have to wonder if the writers were thinking all of this explicitly when they wrote it, or if it only became so, after the fact.

 

[kigmatzomat]

But that... aahhh .....head full of EPA regs.... bonus of != a bonus equal to ....it just..... too much time spent with idiot clients..... thinky thing all hurty....

>Kigmatzomat needs booze badly!<

Yes announcer from Gauntlet, I agree. I shall go get a proper intoxicant and then curl up with my PHB and ToB to see if bourbon or game rules will numb your brain faster.

 

[pawsplay]

If it is an unnamed bonus, and they do not come from an ability with the same name and most of the same text, they stack.

 

[Deekin]

If i recall correctly, the sword sage only gets the bonus in light armor.