D&D 4E Suppose 4e is released, do you buy it?

[GVDammerung]

I've been curiuos about this for a while, since it seems that all attempts by WotC to drift away from traditional fantasy is interpreted as preparations for 4E.

Perhaps the main question is: Does the demand for the new version exist mechanically? Are players bored enough with 3.5 to want a new version, since that would require a large rewrite of the rules in order to be called a new edition?

I'm working on an article about the rumours of 4E, so I'd like to hear some more concrete thoughts on the matter if anyone has them.

This may have been said before, but IMO, Wotc brought down the incessent rumors of 4E on their own and everyone elses heads by "bum-rushing" 3.5. The advanced release of 3.5 changed the dynamic that had, ostensibly, been in play beforehand.

Prior to 3.5, there had never been a purely "money" release, driven by corporate need outside any consideration of the needs of the game or gamers; at the very least there had been the cover of years of time between "editions." 3.5 signalled the rules had changed and that the game could see a new edition a) when warranted by advances in game thought or b) when Wotc needed a cash infusion. Scenario B is all to easy to imagine occuring at any time in today's corporate environment - hence the rumors.

Going forward, I don't think Wotc can put the genie back in the bottle. If they release 3E before 2008, they fuel the "quick succession of releases" thought. If they hold off until 2012, well, I don't think Habro will allow that and the fan buzz about a new edition will likely take its toll before then, as well.

In a sense, I think the chatter about the next edition becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

[GVDammerung]

As I have said before, they had a bit of a "dream team" working on 3e; I don't know if they could convincingly move the game forward in that way again.

Mike Mearls writes the PH; Bruce Cordell tackles the MM, wherein he is allowed to "ecologize" the monsters; Jonathan Tweat returns, but writes the DMG? You pick'em. I think another "dream team" is a possibility.

To generate a "buzz," the "d20 license/OGL " is maintained in a more "limited" fashion but opens up more of the Wotc IP settings within those limitations as an "offset?"

I think the 3E launch can be nearly replicated. I'd be surprised if the launch of 4E was anything but, given the success of the 3E launch.

 

[Yeoman99]

ONLY if the rules were stripped downto enable the game to run smoother, and not rely on minis / tactics as the core driver of the combat system. I was impressed with 3ed. but have been really disappointed with the shovel-loads of rules heapedon the system. it feels leaden and clunky now.

I have not checked out C&C, but the blah sounds promising, and a potential template for the future....

 

[pogre]

You are all lying - you all will buy it

Seriously, the key for me is the OGL - if it is the same type licensing deal I would move onto 4th edition. If not, I would consider moving to another system. I would buy the rules in either case, the real question for me is would I play it?

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I would not convert to Fourth Edition IF the change was as large as from Second Edition to Third Edition UNLESS it made the game near-orgasmically good.

Replying to myself to clarify.

I think the game vastly improved from Second to Third Edition. I bought the three core books when they were revised because a) I only owned the original Player's Handbook, and b) I owned very few unrevised books (in fact, I've bought more since the revision - such as Ghostwalk and Oriental Adventures than I did before it), both of which combined with my interest in Wizards' future products to make it not such a big deal to "upgrade".

When it comes to a Fourth Edition, though, my tolerance for change is smaller. I'd like a Fourth Edition to be as backwards-compatible as possible - in other words, a smaller change than from Second Edition to Third Edition, though I'm comfortable with a greater set of changes from Third to Fourth than from original Third to the revision.

For instance, I would be happy with a Fourth Edition that made one of its tasks a complete bottom-up redesign of the ECL/LA rules so as to make playing "monster" characters a truly competitive option, as long as the game as a whole was recognisably related to Third Edition in a way you can't really say Third is related to Second.

Ideally, Fourth Edition would be a d20 System game which uses the excuse of "it's a new edition" to rethink everything that doesn't work very well right now, a short list of which includes:

• Effective Character Levels and Level Adjustments - one option could be to redesign all ECL-carrying monsters to tie their special abilities to racial Hit Dice and have "monster classes" with a Hit Die at every level, which would also make it perfectly simple for a DM to throw weaker versions of strong monsters at his party.
• Too little distinction between classes - wizard and sorcerer, for instance. The Fourth Edition distinction ought to be as great as the distinction between clerics and druids.
• Polymorph and wild shape.
• Epic-level play - specifically, the way in which the current epic rules simply magnify the "cool factor" gulf between spellcasters (cool high-level spells --> epic spells) and warriors (no exciting high-level feats --> incredibly dull and overrated epic feats).
• Multiclassing - better to include optional "hybrid" classes akin to Monte Cook's mage blade from Arcana Evolved which effectively represent the fighter-mage concept than to patch the multiclass rules with prestige classes.

That's not everything which a new edition could fix, but it's a start. Basically, I really like the way Third Edition plays. I'd just like to see its weaknesses repaired.

If Fourth Edition goes off in a new, non-d20 System non-OGL direction, it would have to be really freaking good to convince me to play - and even so I would be also playing d20/OGL games like Arcana Evolved, Iron Heroes, and Third Edition.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Your reasons don't really encompass my own.

I might buy it, but the OGL has revolutionized gaming as it is. 4e will have to compete for my gaming dollar with things like C&C, M&M, Grim Tales, World of Warcraft, and the hundred and one other gaming systems that have cropped up in one way or another due to the OGL and the SRD.

So I would give it a good, hard look. And I would only buy it if it added something to my games that the hundreds of other alternate RPG systems do already. And that, I doubt.

If 4e was a tweak of 3e, just adjusting minor things, it wouldn't be really worth it....products do that now. If 4e was an overhaul, changing the system entirely, it might not be worth it because I don't see how you can improve on what has already been done.

If 4e was added to the SRD and covered under the OGL and was good, I might do it. Otherwise, why should I spend the extra dough when I have more than WotC to meet my gaming needs these days? I don't DEPEND on them to give me my next D&D supplement. A host of 3rd party out there has me WELL covered. 4e would not only have to give me something unique, it would have to give me something that I could add onto as flexibly as 3e.

 

[Li Shenron]

So many posters say that they would buy 4ed... as long as it is basically still 3ed. That's interesting

You are all lying - you all will buy it

...

I would buy the rules in either case, the real question for me is would I play it?

Well, I have said I would probably buy it, but only after some time, and only if I think I'm going to play with it.

For the record, I did not buy the 3.5 core books, even if we are playing one 3.5 campaign (I use the SRD alone, the players use some of their supplements).

 

[Jhamin]

You are all lying - you all will buy it

Seriously, the key for me is the OGL - if it is the same type licensing deal I would move onto 4th edition. If not, I would consider moving to another system. I would buy the rules in either case, the real question for me is would I play it?

Give the man a medal!

If we go back 4-5 years when this site was Eric Noah's 3rd edition news how many people were there who said that their houseruled 2nd edition rules were perfect and they would never switch? How many said that 3rd edition wasn't needed and their 2nd edition games was all they were interested in? How many of them are still using that binder of house rules?

There are OD&D, 1st ed, and 2nd ed holdouts. There will be 3.x holdouts. But I'm betting that if you survey the D&D players of the world 95% of them play whatever is the current edition.

Why? Two reasons
1) Because when you pick the game up for the first time, you buy what is on the shelves. All this wonderful D&D material we have avalible to us works cause it meshes with the current rules set. Finding players is easier. Picking up supplaments is easier. Dungeon/Dragon will support it. It's just less work to use what everyone else has.

2) There are lots of niggling issues with 3.x. The alpabet soup of monster/PC balancing (CR, ECL, LA, etc), metamagic feats, the epic spell system, high level characters who are more about their items than their abilities. The next edition will fix some or all of these. And the D&D gamer will rejoice. It will eliminate so many of the headaches we have now that it will seem like the best thing ever.
4th will have it's own problems, and we will argue about them. But every time a player makes an ogre ranger PC in a holdout 3.5 game they will untangle the monster HD\class HD\LA they will ask themselves "why aren't we playing 4th where this is all so much simpler? Over time, more and more will be.
(And before you talk about just stealing those rules, how many people think you can really fix the HD\Class\LA mess without fundamentally altering the leveling system?)



And all that D20 content? It follows whatever WOTC is pitching as the players handbook.
The D20 market functions on the principal that since most gamers play D&D at some point why fight the crowd? Just pitch product to a rules set you know most people know and use.
When D&D 4 comes out, if it is OGL the current 3.x market will switch in an instant. The 3.5 OGL will stay in place, but fewer and fewer will care as everything moves to the 4.0 OGL. The OGL marketplace will ask "Why try to pitch supplaments to a bunch of people who won't even buy the current core books? What are the odds I can find enough holdouts to make my product profitable?

And if 4.0 doesn't go OGL, then the current D&D hegemony will fracture. It will be right back to the 2nd edition days when everybody knew D&D but dozens of other rules sets sprang up to support whatever setting the competitors were publishing.

 

[rogueattorney]

I'd never say never, but the prospect of me buying 4e is pretty slim.

WotC (or whomever publishes 4e) would have to take the game in a different direction than it's generally been travelling over the last 10 or so years to attract me. Since that would be pretty likely to alienate their existing fanbase, I think it's unlikely that 4e will be anything that I like.

Since WotC acquired D&D, I've bought a grand total of 2 rpg products from them (actually, one was a birthday present). So I'm not one of those living in denial about my ability to resist a new edition. WotC hasn't made anything to attract my dollars in a long, long time.

I appreciate the OGL and other licenses that have allowed me to get some really interesting products from other companies, though.

R.A.

 

[Jupp]

And if 4.0 doesn't go OGL, then the current D&D hegemony will fracture. It will be right back to the 2nd edition days when everybody knew D&D but dozens of other rules sets sprang up to support whatever setting the competitors were publishing.

Whew, thats like comparing apples and oranges. You speak about settings with the same ruleset (2e) and some additions to that ruleset compared to two different ruleset versions (3e vs 4e)...

BTW, 3e does exactly the same now, just without having settings as the reason for rules additions. Now we have Sandstorm, Frostburn or the MoP. No settings behind it but still rules additions There hasnt been much of a change in that respect, its just different packaging.