D&D 4E Number of attacks and 4E

[cignus_pfaccari]

But it has the potential to have lots of attacks. As does cleave, WWa, and other options. If you limit one you really have to limit them all. But I still perfer in being a little patient and helping the player out in the course of the game. Changing every little thing that causes the players a bit of a problem will really not benifit anyone.

I agree. I'm fast at math, but one of our players isn't, so I'll often help him by telling him what he got.

One of the little cute things I did when playing a TWF character was to roll dice with both hands...right was primary, left was the off-hand. I also had the damage dice in at the same time, though that got to be a potential pain when rolling the +4d6 sneak attack.

I also had cards with the weapon information on them, including the usual attack bonus and damage for being primary, two-handed, or off-hand. Any modifiers I'd write down elsewhere, or set a die to show how much I had in Power Attack or Expertise.

I can see how having one roll determine success and damage would be nice, but I really don't think I'd want that in D&D.

Brad

 

[Planesdragon]

My solution....

Many months ago, I re-vamped the entire multiple attack system IMC. Iterative attacks, which require multiple calculations of different numbers, were tossed out the window. Getting more than one attack either requires actual TWF, or picking up the "Extra Attack" feat.

All extra attacks follow the same basic penalty -- a flat -2 penalty for all attack rolls in that round. If you take a full attack action and only take one attack, you gain a +1 "aim" bonus (mechanically, this is a move-action, but the players largely don't care).

The only high-attack number characters that we've had recently have been some NPCs, but the attacks for them went far faster than they would have for the core d20 method.

Extra Attack

You have learned how to make more of your swings in combat a potentially deadly hit.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +3 or higher.

Benefit: When taking the full attack action, the character may make two attacks. For these attacks, and for any attack of opportunity the character may make in the next round, they reduce their base attack bonus by -2.

Special: A character may take this talent as many as three times. Each time enables them to make one additional attack in a full-attack action, with a -2 reduction in their base attack bonus for each attack (to a maximum of -6 base attack for four attacks).

This talent feat stacks with talents that provide extra attack actions to specific weapon types, and those that allow the character to use a secondary weapon.

I also have a (years old) "fighting style" feat called Twin Weapon. If you train with a pair of weapons (Rapier and Main-Gauche, Katana and Wakizashi, etc.) you can gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls. "Improved Twin Weapon..." increases said bonus to +4.

 

[LostSoul]

But just havign 2 weapon fighting give a bonus to damage negates some of the negatives that the style has. Also, since only one weapon is doing damage and the off hand provides extra damage to that only one weapon needs enchanted.

Maybe that's as it should be.

The biggest problem with the straight bonus to attacks is that a Rogue can't do a ton of Sneak Attack damage.

 

[Crothian]

Maybe that's as it should be.

The biggest problem with the straight bonus to attacks is that a Rogue can't do a ton of Sneak Attack damage.

I never say this as a bad thing though.

This thread needs to goto house rules

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Well, if we go 1/2 base damage, an enchanted off hand weapon would do more damage, so it would still be advantageous to have both enchanted. I also think a bonus to hit would be off for D20. Either negate the standard penalty, or leave it to off set the bonus damage.

The Rogues SA would be somewhat nerfed, as would multiple touch attacks, such as brilliant weapons. But the bonus damage would multiply on a crit since it is a flat bonus. The only real problem would be DR bypassing material. The easiest way would be to have the main weapon lead for DR purposes.

Another possibility would be to increase the crit range and/or multiplier of your main weapon.

 

[Ranger REG]

You're right, I do - but what I want is more like the Shot Clock from Feng Shui for initiative, with Weapon Speeds (and corresponding Casting Times), and feats and class progression that allow you to speed up a bit, or even slow down to do special stuff.

Oh, lawd. Not Weapon Speed again. :\

The weapon does not move itself, you move the weapon. Also, you'd have to factor weapon speed of the same weapon but of different sizes (i.e., halfing longsword, human longsword, ogre longsword).

 

[Crothian]

The weapon does not move itself, you move the weapon. Also, you'd have to factor weapon speed of the same weapon but of different sizes (i.e., halfing longsword, human longsword, ogre longsword).

Ya, the weapon has to be moved but moving some weapons is easier then others. And the size categories just make it that much more fun!!

 

[frankthedm]

I don't have a problem with lots of attacks from high level characters. What I have a problem with is players that are slow and not ready to take 8 attacks. Don't fix the game, fix the player.

I agree

 

[FireLance]

Just off the top of my head. A very simple system.

The One Roll system:
When you attack, you roll the d20 once.

How iterative attacks resolve:
If you can attack twice in a round, subtract 5 from your attack roll. If you still hit, roll damage again (or double your damage, if you don't want to re-roll - choose before rolling for damage).
If you can attack three or more times in a round, roll damage again (or increase your damage multiplier by 1) for every 5 points that your attack roll exceeds your target's AC, up to the number of attacks you have.

How two-weapon fighting resolves:
Fighting with two weapons imposes a -8 penalty to your attack roll, or -6 if one weapon is light. The Two-Weapon Fighting feat reduces this penalty by 4 (-4 penalty or -2 if one weapon is light).
If you have varying attack bonuses with your two weapons, average them and round down.
If you hit, roll damage for both the primary and secondary weapons.
Iterative attacks work as above, but for the secondary weapon, this is further capped by the number of iterative attacks you get with that weapon (one, if you do not have Improved Two-Weapon Fighting).

How criticals resolve:
Only the first attack with your primary weapon has a chance to score a critical hit. Use the threat range of your primary weapon.

 

[Bardsandsages]

Multi attacks are a non-issue. By the gods, we are talking about basic addition. If it's slowing your game down because someone can't add, you have other issues than the number of attacks!

And as far as spellcasters, once combat starts, I invoke "live time", as in "You are in combat, you don't have five minutes to select a spell. Make a decision or hold your action."