D&D 4E Number of attacks and 4E

[Amazing Triangle]

I'm still failing to see why capping the number of attacks is such a bad idea, provided there's still a good mechanical distinction between two-weapon fighters and single-weapon fighters. It certainly sounds better than preventing people who can't do speed math from playing certain archetypes.

Because changing the player is easier than changing a system. I recommmend for those high level encounters rolling dice, either ahead of time, or using a dice roller. This is what I always do when I get 8 attacks or 11 with haste and flurry of blows. I roll while walking through town and write them all down and have 8 damage rolls ahead of time. This usually helps to move things along. So change the player not the game. Changing the game would cause the balance of the game to tip further toward the player who chooses to be a wizard. Casting is more unbalanced than fighting will ever be. In my experience 8 attacks is easier to choose than 10 levels of spells with about 20 books with spells in them.

 

[Ranger REG]

Mechanics-wise, I agree entirely. Realism-wise - which I'm usually not a stickler for, since I play to HAVE FUN, but there does come a point - it isn't very realistic to have eight attacks with most weapons in 6 seconds.

It's not realistic to make just one melee attack in the entire 6 seconds, literally.

Do you want to put a cap on how many attacks a weapon can be used in a combat round, aside from ammo-based and/or reload-required weapons? Does this cap also count against AoO (woe to the Combat Reflex PC)?

 

[Kunimatyu]

It's not realistic to make just one melee attack in the entire 6 seconds, literally.

Do you want to put a cap on how many attacks a weapon can be used in a combat round, aside from ammo-based and/or reload-required weapons? Does this cap also count against AoO (woe to the Combat Reflex PC)?

A cap on the number of attacks in a full attack is all that's needed, I think -- Combat Reflexes, as it only allows one AoO per provocation, wouldn't suffer at all.

 

[Crothian]

A cap on the number of attacks in a full attack is all that's needed, I think -- Combat Reflexes, as it only allows one AoO per provocation, wouldn't suffer at all.

What about whirlwind attack and great cleave? Will this also be limited?

 

[Ranger REG]

A cap on the number of attacks in a full attack is all that's needed, I think -- Combat Reflexes, as it only allows one AoO per provocation, wouldn't suffer at all.

Yeah, but I think Torm wanted more.

That or just give TWF the one extra attack but reduce the penalty (through a chain of feats) until 0.

Of course, I'd lobby so that ranged attack (i.e., Rapid Shot) be given the same treatment.

 

[Bryan898]

I've run 2 epic campaigns and the characters had 4+ attacks most of the time, yet still never ran into this problem. They could whip through their attacks in a matter of 10-20 seconds, even with a description of what they're doing. However, it could just be my players.

The problem I run across more often however, is people picking what spells they're going to cast, then checking the distancing on the spells and effects, etc.

However, if you wish to change it, a system that allows damage to increase instead of gaining multiple attacks may work. This would also make hitting/ missing more crucial in combat.

 

[Kunimatyu]

What about whirlwind attack and great cleave? Will this also be limited?

Well, I personally would prefer Whirlwind Attack as one attack roll vs. the AC of all enemies in the threatened area, and that's how I houserule it in my games.

Great Cleave, I'm not sure about. It'd be interesting if the to-hit and damage of the Cleave attack were the same as the values of the attack that dropped the enemy, but I'm not overly concerned if the fighter gets more attacks only when he's swarmed by mooks, as that tends to only come up for a few rounds once every couple of encounters at most.

The big thing is just finding some way to subsume the damage of the additional attacks into extra damage in some fashion, so that the epic levels don't require a dice calculator to play.

 

[RangerWickett]

The alternate system I've been fiddling with works so that the amount of damage you deal with a hit is dependent upon how much you beat the target's AC by, so if you're a fighter, a single attack will accomplish what 4 attacks would do.

It's still in testing, but it's much faster. The problem I am having is making different weapons be interestingly different.

 

[arscott]

Another thing to remember is that the number of rounds in a combat goes down as the number of attacks increases. So while each person's turn seems slower, your combat might not be taking up as much time as you think.

 

[WayneLigon]

Since we've been getting into the 4/5/6 attacks range, we've started simply pre-rolling all attacks and damage while waiting for the GM to describe what's happening or do movement. That way when it's my turn, I can say my to hit number and then damage if it hit. Once we figure out the to hit number, it goes even quicker.