D&D 4E Number of attacks and 4E

[Kunimatyu]

One thing I've noticed in my high-level game is that oftentimes just rolling dice for a turn starts taking a very long time. A two-weapon fighter getting off a full attack around level 15 could have something like eight attacks, not counting Cleaves, and that's an awful lot of dice.

I'm starting to hope that when 4th Edition comes along, characters max out at between 2-3 attacks, probably something like 2 for a normal character, 3 for a two-weapon fighter or rapid shot archer. It'd be even more interesting if the maximum # of attacks per turn was 2, but TWFers could take their two attacks and move, while a single-weapon fighter would have to choose between two attacks or an attack and a move.

Thoughts?

 

[Crothian]

I don't have a problem with lots of attacks from high level characters. What I have a problem with is players that are slow and not ready to take 8 attacks. Don't fix the game, fix the player.

 

[Frostmarrow]

I don't have a problem with lots of attacks from high level characters. What I have a problem with is players that are slow and not ready to take 8 attacks. Don't fix the game, fix the player.

I'd rather fix the game, really.

Why must two weapon fighters get an extra attack?

 

[Torm]

I don't have a problem with lots of attacks from high level characters. What I have a problem with is players that are slow and not ready to take 8 attacks. Don't fix the game, fix the player.

Mechanics-wise, I agree entirely. Realism-wise - which I'm usually not a stickler for, since I play to HAVE FUN, but there does come a point - it isn't very realistic to have eight attacks with most weapons in 6 seconds.

 

[Crothian]

I'd rather fix the game, really.

Why must two weapon fighters get an extra attack?

To allow for a mechanical reason to fight using that style. As the 2 weapon fighting has really never been a probl;em seen on these boards in the 5 and half years of d20, I would say the game doesn't need fixing.

 

[Crothian]

Mechanics-wise, I agree entirely. Realism-wise - which I'm usually not a stickler for, since I play to HAVE FUN, but there does come a point - it isn't very realistic to have eight attacks with most weapons in 6 seconds.

Its fantasy, there are a lot of things that are not realistic going on. I never saw the point of picking on one aspect that is unrealistic while allowing all these others that are even sometimes more unrealistic.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

To allow for a mechanical reason to fight using that style. As the 2 weapon fighting has really never been a problem seen on these boards in the 5 and half years of d20, I would say the game doesn't need fixing.

*DING DING!*

In my experience the slow players will be slow regardless of what weapons they use. Gutting a core ability for the fighting classes does not seem a worthwhile solution.

Fixes that may work - Get more dice! Use color to show which die goes with which attack. I suggest ROYGBIV or a variant for mnemonic reasons. (For those familiar with Paranoia you can add black as the first die and white as the last die.)

A timer. Give him a set period to make his rolls, any rolls not taken are attacks that do not happen.

But honestly, I have never found it a problem.

The Auld Grump

 

[Creeping Death]

Speed up the player

Roll d20 and damage die at the same time. Later, when the opponents have concealment roll the % die at the same time. Again, color coat the dice as TheAuldGrump stated. There are things that a player can do to speed things up.

As Crothian said, fix the player not the system.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I really think it's the system at fault here -- I've got players who precisely manage out all of their attacks with color coded dice all rolled at the same time, and the system still seems really clunky to me. During the early to mid levels, turns are generally over fairly quickly, but once it gets up to higher levels, it's not uncommon for someone to roll 20 dice PER TURN. And then check them and add up damage on all of them. You can only do that so fast.

It seems to me that a lot of that could be avoided if the rules limited a player to just a couple attacks, but at the higher levels, fighting classes got other perks instead of iterative attacks. For example, maybe a TWFer could get rend damage if they hit with both weapons.

 

[Crothian]

During the early to mid levels, turns are generally over fairly quickly, but once it gets up to higher levels, it's not uncommon for someone to roll 20 dice PER TURN. And then check them and add up damage on all of them. You can only do that so fast.

I think 20 dice is a bit on the high side for anyone, but you are right about basic math. It can only be done so fast, and some people though they usually hate it when it is pointed out to them are not good at basic math. These people should probably not be playing characters that require so many dice rolls and need to add things fast since the player cannot do it. Not all character typeos are for all players.