D&D 3E/3.5 The impact of revised 3E on monster design

[Knight Otu]

Our biggest hope is the revised pit fiend. It almost has 8+Int mod skill points, with the *4 multiplier on the first HD. It is missing one skill point, though.

 

[BOZ]

it does sound like 3.5 will bring a lot of changes... some good, some perhaps not so.

 

[Geocorona]

But I disagree with Knight Otu's (what a surprise ) idea that they should incorporate the giant type into humanoids/monstrous humanoids, as I feel that there is a too big a difference between say a hill giant and a minotaur.

That wasn't Knight Otu's idea, nor mine for that matter.

I would suggest giving giants the fighter BAB, allowing Humanoids 0-3 good saves, and eliminating Monstrous Humanoid.

Any differences between minotaurs and hill giants can certainly be reflected in ability scores.

 

[Krishnath]

Well, I still disagree as there are immense differences between monstrous humanoids and giants, here are some examples of monstrous humanoids that would not work as giants:

Abeil (MM2)
Braxat (MM2)
Centaur
Harpy
Loxo (MM2)
Medusa
and
Yuan-Ti

and that is just the tip of the proverbial ice-berg.

Also giants would not fit as monstrous humanoids, as most giants are far from monstrous (with exception of the Ettin and the Troll that is.)

In other words, it's a stupid and idiotic idea, and you can quote me on that.

Later,

 

[Geocorona]

In other words, it's a stupid and idiotic idea, and you can quote me on that.

I doubt it, but thanks for the offer.

I still don't think you get it.

Not all monstrous humanoids would become giants, nor would the converse be true. Some would be simply humanoids, others aberrations, fey, or even magical beasts.

Why a centaur is a monstrous humanoid and a lamia a magical beast baffles me, and I doubt that has anything to do with my stupidity or idiocy.

And your mis-extrapolation of concepts into convenient straw men leaves you little room for name-calling.

 

[Knight Otu]

Umm, guys, lets try to stick to R3.5, ok?

 

[Tonguez]

So
Cloud Giant
Huge Humanoid (Subtype: Air)
Hit Die: d8
Attack Bonus: Total HDx3/4 (as cleric)
Good Saving Throws: Variable (Fortitude or Reflex or Will)
Skill Points: +1 per extra HD
Feats: +1 per 4 extra HD


Ettin
Large Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Die: d8
Attack Bonus: Total HD (as fighter)
Good Saving Throws: Reflex and Will
Skill Points: +2 per extra HD
Feats: +1 per 4 extra HD

compare to
Giant type
Hit Die: d8
Attack Bonus: per humanoid
Good Saving Throws: Fortitude
Skill Points: per Humanoid
Feats: Same

Yep I say make giants Humanoids...

 

[Gez]

Since giants are basically humanoids of Large and greater size (when adult, that is)...

I found only one Large humanoid (some of the Rokugan Nagas in Oriental Adventures), and never saw a Giant below Large size.

Also, I found it somewhat ludicrous they put monster-sats-by-size table for Fine Giants and for Colossal Humanoids in the MM2...

The only objection to merging giants with humanoids (most of them) and monstrous humanoids (trolls, ettins, fomorians, phaerlins...) is that with such a system, the gnome and dwarf AC bonus against giants would be modified (against Large humanoids ? Againts Large humanoids and monstrous humanoids ?).

Of course, you could get rid of the monstrous humanoid type as well -- things really monstrous, like the ormyrr (never understood why the hell it wasn't an aberration from start, it's far less humanoid than an illithid), would become aberration, others (like centaur, yeti, minotaur) would become humanoids.

Elemental, fey, undead and vermin could easily become subtypes.

Dragons are really magical beasts, but they deserve a special rank, being the icons and title of the game.

Aberration
Animal
Construct
Dragon
Humanoid
Magical Beast
Plant
Ooze
Outsider

That's enough !

 

[Geocorona]

<<Yep I say make giants Humanoids...>>

That's a better idea to reduce the clutter, and if you want to leave giants with the cleric BAB. Goblinoids don't have their own type. Giants don't need it either.

for instance:
Large Humanoid (Giant, Fire)

 

[Tonguez]

Aberration
Animal
Construct
Dragon
Humanoid
Magical Beast
Plant
Ooze
Outsider

That's enough !

Actually why should Animal and Magical Beast be seperate types? Why can't a Blink Dog for instance just be Animal with high Int and spell-like abilities?

And whilst your making Vermin a subtype why not Ooze too- after all an Ooze could just as easily be considered an Abberation...

so my list

Aberration
Animal
Construct
Dragon
Humanoid
Plant
Outsider