Stat this up # 2

[Cleon]

Looks amazing.
So this look alright for the orbs?

Updating the Hu Lung Working Draft.

You made no objection to the red bit in the Cold Foxfire so I assumed you were OK with that and added it in.

Foxfire Orbs (Su): At X age catagory (Whenever it gets its second tale makes sense. I thinks its juvenile.) the Dragon can release the fire from its tales into glowing (Foxfire Color) orbs that travel with the dragon. as a free action the dragon can make the orbs moves where it wants to within 10 ft per age catagory. creatures entering the same square as an orb takes x (Maybe 1d6 Per 3 or 4 age catagory?) foxfire damage. the dragon often uses foxfire in this way to dissuade flanking.

If the dragon hits with an attack of opportunity it can cause an adjacent orb to also strike the same target causing it to explode in a five ft burst dealing x damage.

the dragon can have one orb active per tale and can generate a number of orbs per day equal to its hit dice.

I was thinking of a quite different approach, but I'd rather go through its abilities in age order.

It gets its second tail at Young Adult, so we've got a fair few to sort out before we reach the "Firetails" or "Orbs".

 

[Nookie]

Updating the Hu Lung Working Draft.

You made no objection to the red bit in the Cold Foxfire so I assumed you were OK with that and added it in.



I was thinking of a quite different approach, but I'd rather go through its abilities in age order.

It gets its second tail at Young Adult, so we've got a fair few to sort out before we reach the "Firetails" or "Orbs".

Yeah im fine with the red bits.
ok so untill the dragon gets big enough for an actual tale slap it fire tale could just be a touch attack. Once it gets large enough it can be bonus damage onto of a tale slap. But it can still do a touch attack if it wants. Damage can be a d6 Per 3 or 4 age categories minimum of 1d6.

 

[Cleon]

Yeah im fine with the red bits.
ok so untill the dragon gets big enough for an actual tale slap it fire tale could just be a touch attack. Once it gets large enough it can be bonus damage onto of a tale slap. But it can still do a touch attack if it wants. Damage can be a d6 Per 3 or 4 age categories minimum of 1d6.

I think d6 per 4 age categories is a bit too low.

Its various foxfire abilities are effectively a substitute for a regular dragon's breath weapon. A Copper Dragon's breath weapon does 2d4 damage per age category AND are an area effect attack so can harm multiple targets.

The Hu Lung gains an area effect with its foxfire when it becomes able to make a "tail sweep" attack and its Foxtails ability allows it to individually target multiple opponents. We should try to make those do damage that's roughly equivalent to the breath weapon(s) of a dragon of similar CR.

It will need to be adjusted downwards because a dragon can use its breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds while the Hu Lung can make foxfire tail attacks every round. A strict interpretation would say that 40% of the breath weapon damage is appropriate, but I'd make it more than that because the dragon will have an opportunity cost for using its foxfire (i.e. it'll still be taking a round's worth of damage from its enemies).

I was just going to make the tail a regular melee attack rather than a melee touch, just to keep it a bit simpler, but I am game for considering a "burning touch" option.

 

[Nookie]

I think d6 per 4 age categories is a bit too low.

Its various foxfire abilities are effectively a substitute for a regular dragon's breath weapon. A Copper Dragon's breath weapon does 2d4 damage per age category AND are an area effect attack so can harm multiple targets.

The Hu Lung gains an area effect with its foxfire when it becomes able to make a "tail sweep" attack and its Foxtails ability allows it to individually target multiple opponents. We should try to make those do damage that's roughly equivalent to the breath weapon(s) of a dragon of similar CR.

It will need to be adjusted downwards because a dragon can use its breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds while the Hu Lung can make foxfire tail attacks every round. A strict interpretation would say that 40% of the breath weapon damage is appropriate, but I'd make it more than that because the dragon will have an opportunity cost for using its foxfire (i.e. it'll still be taking a round's worth of damage from its enemies).

I was just going to make the tail a regular melee attack rather than a melee touch, just to keep it a bit simpler, but I am game for considering a "burning touch" option.

Ok so 24d4 For a Copper dragon breath ever 1d6 rounds (Average 3 rounds) so 1/3 the damage each tale sweep. So a d4 per age catagory sounds about right. (Or maybe a d6 per tale it has if you want to go with slightly more average damage due to the round of damage?)

i was only mentioning a touch because smaller dragon cant tale sweep and we wanted them to have a tale option from the start.

 

[Cleon]

Ok so 24d4 For a Copper dragon breath ever 1d6 rounds (Average 3 rounds) so 1/3 the damage each tale sweep. So a d4 per age catagory sounds about right. (Or maybe a d6 per tale it has if you want to go with slightly more average damage due to the round of damage?)

It's every 1d4 rounds, so the average is once every 2.5 or 40% per round.

We also need to remember it tail does regular bludgeoning plus Strength modifier damage as well as the foxfire.

Oh, and the tail also has increased reach - the basic Foxdragon is Tiny (base reach 0 ft.) but has a 5 ft. reach with its tail.

Let's see, assuming standard True Dragon tail damage it'll have.

Foxdragon: 1d3-2 plus 1d3 fire plus burn
Wyrmling: 1d3 plus X foxfire
Very Young: 1d4+1 plus X foxfire
Young: 1d6+3 plus X foxfire
Juvenile: 1d6+4 plus X foxfire
Young Adult: 1d8+6 plus X foxfire
Adult: 1d8+9 plus X foxfire
Mature Adult: 2d6+12 plus X foxfire
Old: 2d6+13 plus X foxfire
Very Old: 2d6+15 plus X foxfire
Ancient: 2d6+16 plus X foxfire
Wyrm: 2d8+18 plus X foxfire
Great Wyrm: 2d8+19 plus X foxfire

The above assumes it gets 1.5 times its Strength bonus as per normal True Dragon tail slap.

I'm inclined to make it 1.0 times its Str bonus and tweak the bludgeoning damage dice up a step. Basically have its tail base damage be a match to a True Dragon's bite damage and make the Hu Lung's bite a secondary attack (since that's pretty much what we did with the Foxdragon):

Foxdragon: 1d3-2 plus 1d3 fire plus burn
Wyrmling: 1d4 plus 1d4 foxfire
Very Young: 1d6+1 plus 2d4 foxfire
Young: 1d8+2 plus 3d4 foxfire
Juvenile: 2d6+3 plus 4d4 foxfire
Young Adult: 2d6+4 plus 5d4 foxfire
Adult: 2d6+6 plus 6d4 foxfire
Mature Adult: 2d8+8 plus 7d4 foxfire
Old: 2d8+9 plus 8d4 foxfire
Very Old: 3d6+10 plus 9d4 foxfire
Ancient: 3d6+11 plus 10d4 foxfire
Wyrm: 4d6+12 plus 11d4 foxfire
Great Wyrm: 4d6+13 plus 12d4 foxfire

Hmm, that might work. I approve of the way the foxfire damage is approximately the same as the base tail+Str damage like with the Foxdragon.

i was only mentioning a touch because smaller dragon cant tale sweep and we wanted them to have a tale option from the start.

I don't mind adding the idea. If we do that the "touch" version would only do foxfire damage though, not the tail+Str+foxfire of the normal melee attack.

 

[Cleon]

I don't mind adding the idea. If we do that the "touch" version would only do foxfire damage though, not the tail+Str+foxfire of the normal melee attack.

Upon reflection, I'm thinking maybe the "touch option" ought to do d6s foxfire damage with the "regular tail version using d4s.

i.e.

Foxdragon: 1d3-2 plus 1d3 fire plus burn
Wyrmling: melee (1d4 plus 1d4 foxfire) or touch (1d6 foxfire)
Very Young: melee (1d6+1 plus 2d4 foxfire) or touch (2d6 foxfire)
Young: melee (1d8+2 plus 3d4 foxfire) or touch (3d6 foxfire)
Juvenile: melee (2d6+3 plus 4d4 foxfire) or touch (4d6 foxfire)
Young Adult: melee (2d6+4 plus 5d4 foxfire) or touch (5d6 foxfire)
Adult: melee (2d6+6 plus 6d4 foxfire) or touch (6d6 foxfire)
Mature Adult: melee (2d8+8 plus 7d4 foxfire) or touch (7d6 foxfire)
Old: melee (2d8+9 plus 8d4 foxfire) or touch (8d6 foxfire)
Very Old: melee (3d6+10 plus 9d4 foxfire) or touch (9d6 foxfire)
Ancient: melee (3d6+11 plus 10d4 foxfire) or touch (10d6 foxfire)
Wyrm: melee (4d6+12 plus 11d4 foxfire) or touch (11d6 foxfire)
Great Wyrm: melee (4d6+13 plus 12d4 foxfire) or touch (12d6 foxfire)

 

[Nookie]

Maybe the "touch" version can be like an aoe burst that hits a large area instead of a tale spin. Like it touch attacks everything in x area to counter all those evacive jerkface rogues.

 

[Nookie]

I also approve of the latest tale slaps.

 

[Cleon]

Maybe the "touch" version can be like an aoe burst that hits a large area instead of a tale spin. Like it touch attacks everything in x area to counter all those evacive jerkface rogues.

I'd rather stick to the regular tail sweep mechanics of Reflex save for half.

If it wanted to touch attack multiple opponents it can just separate into firetails.

 

[Cleon]

Okay, I'm thinking it makes sense to move the Foxfire Tail column from Dragon Abilities by Age to a separate table in the combat entry.

Furthermore, I'm thinking 1d8 would work better for the tail touch foxfire damage than 1d6 if we wanted it to do roughly the same damage with both attacks. If we'd rather have the touch do less damage with vastly better accuracy I'm OK leaving it as-is.

Thus:

Foxfire Tail (Ex): All hu lung dragons can make melee and touch attacks with their tails that can inflict foxfire damage. The dragon usually makes a tail attack as a primary natural weapon attack and makes its other natural weapon attacks (bite, claws) as secondary attacks, but it does have the option to make a primary attack with its bite and a secondary attack with its tail.

A hu lung dragon has increased Reach with its tail. Consult the Foxfire Tail Table for the reach and typical foxfire tail attack damage of standard hu lung dragons in each age category.

Tail Slap: If the dragon hits with a melee attack from its tail, it does bludgeoning damage plus 1d4 foxfire damage per age category of the dragon. A hu lung applies its Strength modifier to its tail slap's bludgeoning damage normally, it does not apply 1.5 times its Strength bonus like a standard true dragons.

Tail Touch: If the dragon hits with a melee touch attack from its tail, it does 1d8 foxfire damage per age category of the dragon. The hu lung does not apply its Strength modifier to its tail touch damage.

Foxfire Tail Table

Age	Reach	Slap Damage	Touch Damage
Wyrmling Very Young Young Juvenile Young Adult Adult Mature Adult Old Very Old Ancient Wyrm Great Wyrm	5 ft. 10 ft. 15 ft. 15 ft. 20 ft. 20 ft. 30 ft. 30 ft. 30 ft. 30 ft. 40 ft. 40 ft.	1d4 plus 1d4 foxfire 1d6+1 plus 2d4 foxfire 1d8+2 plus 3d4 foxfire 1d8+3 plus 4d4 foxfire 2d6+4 plus 5d4 foxfire 2d6+6 plus 6d4 foxfire 2d8+8 plus 7d4 foxfire 2d8+9 plus 8d4 foxfire 3d6+10 plus 9d4 foxfire 3d6+11 plus 10d4 foxfire 4d6+12 plus 11d4 foxfire 4d6+13 plus 12d4 foxfire	1d6 foxfire 2d6 foxfire 3d6 foxfire 4d6 foxfire 5d6 foxfire 6d6 foxfire 7d6 foxfire 8d6 foxfire 9d6 foxfire 10d6 foxfire 11d6 foxfire 12d6 foxfire