D&D 4E OT: Shadowrun 4E announced

[kigmatzomat]

A mage and a samurai are no harder to integrate than a guy who is not physically present in the same area, and who's realm in no way resembles the area that the mage and sammy are in??

"can be" != "absolutely always is"

Yes, you can run a projecting mage in such a way as to cause problems. Or you can run him together with the rest of the party just as easily. The decker doesn't have those options (or, at the very least, it requires much more work)

We never had too much trouble integrating the deckers. Part of it was a few simple hardware hacks: deckers who were online had a cellphone/radio link to the outside world that didn't require any checks or processing power; it was just a data feed like hitcher jacks. The decker might be immobile but he was no longer incommunicado. His presence was felt just as much as the rigger's: doors opened, elevators operated automatically, cameras stopped panning, security drones changed course, etc.

Generally the decker could warn us when his control was slipping and we'd tell him when we were about to make too much noise to hide. At that point we all went into firefight mode to create as much chaos as possible to cover our escape.

It was comparable to the mage taking out mystical wards, spirits, etc from astral space while sitting in the rigger's van. (though I miss the 1E days of astral AE spells grounding out through dual-natured creatures)

 

[Michelle Lyons]

you may not be a "company representative", but if you're correcting folks on the game or writers, you are representing them. You should be either more involved or resistant to baiting, but I think more involved makes more sense. The Dumpshock crew really ends up being self-indulgent in these matters, and not really very effective outside their home.

Well, given that I responded to you (and that's a total of... oh 3 responses online to fans regarding negative opinions on work or business over the past year) I would say my record is pretty good. As to being involved... I can talk about the people and the company, to a certain extent. I cannot talk about the game. I have NDAs to honor, just as I do for every company I work for and every project I work on. I don't have the option of correcting or contradicting folks on the game materials for SR4 (which, as you'll observe, I have not done). I'm not the line developer and I can't make a snap decision what to say or not say on a given topic. Since I hate with a passion those who say "Well, it's not like that and I can't tell you what it really is, but it's Really Cool!" I don't do that either.

I'm not sure what involvement you would appreciate beyond what I have now, short of what I noted I can't give. Where there are facts I can offer to correct fallacies, I do so. Where I can't, I don't. I can't involve people (nor do I feel the company should necessarily do so, not that they asked me) in the design process beyond taking suggestions. I'm not sure what other options that leaves to me that you would find more satisfying as a customer and fan of the game (in whatever version you prefer. )

At the same time, as I noted, I responded initially in a moment of weakness and should have just let it go or taken it to PM if I couldn't resist. The thread as a whole has my apologies for that and the tangent caused by it.

 

[The Horror]

I'm a somewhat interested party, but that's the extent of it. Make of that what you will.

Wait a second. Michelle, are you doing some freelance work on Shadowrun 4th?

**checks other post***

My God. This book is going to rock.

For those of you that don't know, Michelle Lyons was the person who wrote the Daedalus setting in Ex Machina. There were only two settings in that book that actually gave some thought as to the role of characters in an actual game, and that were more than just exercises in writing some fiction material. One of those was Underworld, which really did not do much to update the old ideas of Cyberpunk. Daedalus was the other. It looked at real life news articles, current up to date technological trends, and the social issues associated with those new emerging technologies. It then proceeded to extrapolate that information into a futuristic dystopian setting, while still keeping in mind the fact that it was at the end of the day all for a game that would have to be played by real people.

Eight good pieces of news already out from the FanPro FAQ. Another good piece of news here.


The Horror

 

[Geron Raveneye]

The decker doesn't have those options (or, at the very least, it requires much more work)

Errrr...yes, he does, and no, it doesn't create more work than bringing a mage along for the ride? it was always advantageous to jack in from some safe corner inside the compund you were trying to infiltrate. Dismantle any elctronic device connected to the building's matrix, a quick Electronics test, and you were in without having to deal with those pesky security ICs that clutter the front door of every major target's matrix.

Likewise, as described above already, not being physically present never was a deterring factor for either decker or mage to participate in the group activities. And if a decker has a "solo" run, the rest of the group usually sits around and listens with interest...because it's a team mate putting his life on the line, and because they get the important bits of info directly, without having to ask the decker's player afterwards. Simply make sure the decker stays "on target", and the matrix runs won't take hours...and if you make them interesting enough, the rest will sit and cheer their fellow runner instead of raiding the pantry.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Don't know about that...an astrally projecting mage can be as "off-world" as a decker can be. They both take time, and it always depends on how detailed GM and player want to make it. And one of the precepts of Shadowrun's matrix system was that nearly everything that wasn't ultra-high security stuff was connected to the matrix at some level. Why? Because it was cheaper to set up one network all over the building than three separate ones, and it was cheaper to connect stuff to the matrix and transfer data like that instead of lugging around big heaps of opto-chips each time you wanted to update your OS. And cheap was one of the motifs in SR...cheap stuff for inflated prices for an unthinking consumer made by corporations that only want to raise their annual revenues without caring about the human element, or quality checks, or national laws.

A big problem with the Decking Rules for me was always that they used an entirely different subsystem.
The astral plane was just like melee combat. Even better, a lot of threats in the astral plane had a direct physical representation. While the mage might attack the enemy fire elementar from the plane, the samurai might do it in the "real" world.
And if a mage did go scouting through the astral plane, it is not as different then a rogue scouting ahead in a dungeon (to use a D&D reference). You know and understand what is described.

But a decker? He has to use several complex maneuvers most of the time, using special modifiers granted from his various software tools and so on. The surrounding could look like anything and might not make any sense at all...

 

[Vocenoctum]

But a decker? He has to use several complex maneuvers most of the time, using special modifiers granted from his various software tools and so on. The surrounding could look like anything and might not make any sense at all...

Bah, any real decker had a reality filter!
That was the first thing to go in most of the "gotta cut time" games though, describing the imagery.