Nerd Immersion interviews Kyle Brink

[Retreater]

This whole ordeal demonstrates to me the tiny portion of the fan base I represent. We aren't a blip on the C-Level radar. That really lowers my hope that there's going to be anything for me in the future of the brand. Adventures, settings, rules, etc, are likely going to hold increasingly less interest for me.
Understandably, they need to appeal to the majority of their players. However, they desperately need to up their game for DMs, especially ones like me who - through several weekly games - run products for 15 unique players a week.

 

[Velderan]

I'm not concerned about the aesthetics. I'm worried about having to assemble what you can have in your VTT games piecemeal.
For example, the black dragon featured in the reveal trailer. One of the designers was saying that you buy pre-made modules and then you can use the assets to create your own game.
In my mind, this is like buying a "black dragon lair" adventure. Then later you have access to the stats for a black dragon and can include it in a game. So you are gradually building up a traditional Monster Manual for the VTT, probably for hundreds of dollars of individual transactions as opposed to buying (for example) the Monster Manual for $30 on Roll20.
Granted, this is MUCH less of a concern now that we know they're leaving the other VTTs alone. Because if this was going to be the only way to play the game online, I'd have to be out. Not only because of the cost, but also because we'd likely be waiting years for them to release all the creatures we're used to accessing for adventures.

I'd think it's more likely they give you the VTT assets for books you buy on DDB, so if you buy the Monster Manual on DDB you get the 3d assets to use those creatures. Buying the DMG gets you the standard magic item stat blocks and 3d models. Buying a hypothetical "black dragon lair" adventure might get you the stat block and slightly different 3d model for a specific black dragon, like Khisanth. Buying Descent into Avernus gets you the 3d model for Zariel's Sword. At least that's how I'd do it to make it attractive to buy additional books while not being overly predatory.

 

[Iosue]

The thing is, they already have a very functional and useful mechanism for microtransactions on DND Beyond. You can buy a book on DDB. But you can also choose to buy specific parts of that book for a lower price. If you do so, that lowers the total price of the book for you. You can purchase only what you need, you can get the whole book piecemeal if you want, and you never have to double pay.

So maybe, if there’s an adventure with a black dragon lair, you could purchase just the lair assets for use in your homebrew. Then later if you want the dragon mini, you purchase that. And then later if you want the whole adventure, you can get it at a price minus what you’ve already paid.

This would be a highly efficient, smart way to set up purchases, because even if someone doesn’t want the whole product, you can still get money from them.

Now, given recent events, I’m not entirely confident that they are smart enough do this, but it seems to me to be the only way to make a 3D VTT work as a successful moneymaker. You need ease of buy-in to keep your customer base growing. Homebrew is a staple of D&D, so if you’re relying only on those who buy official adventures, you’re leaving money on the table. But you need to make it easy for people to get assets to make it work. Allowing individual purchase of assets is a no-brainer.

 

[mamba]

Not only because of the cost, but also because we'd likely be waiting years for them to release all the creatures we're used to accessing for adventures.

they have 300+ people working on this thing, I’d be surprised if one monster from the MM were missing on day one. Heck, I’d expect MM, MMotM, and the ones from all published adventures, along with assets needed for those adventures (dungeon, forest, village, city, jungle, …)

Those assets might continue to be added to, but I expect a solid foundation to exist right from the start

 

[Retreater]

they have 300+ people working on this thing, I’d be surprised if one monster from the MM were missing on day one. Heck, I’d expect MM, MMotM, and the ones from all published adventures, along with assets needed for those adventures (dungeon, forest, village, city, jungle, …)

Those assets might continue to be added to, but I expect a solid foundation to exist right from the start

You're extremely optimistic.
I don't expect it to ever leave tech demo status.

 

[Clint_L]

I'm not concerned about the aesthetics. I'm worried about having to assemble what you can have in your VTT games piecemeal.
For example, the black dragon featured in the reveal trailer. One of the designers was saying that you buy pre-made modules and then you can use the assets to create your own game.
In my mind, this is like buying a "black dragon lair" adventure. Then later you have access to the stats for a black dragon and can include it in a game. So you are gradually building up a traditional Monster Manual for the VTT, probably for hundreds of dollars of individual transactions as opposed to buying (for example) the Monster Manual for $30 on Roll20.

In my mind, this sounds pretty much like how buying physical miniatures and terrain works. For example, I might buy a set from Dwarven Forge that lets me make a particular build that they've advertised (like the Docks District in their current Kickstarter). But I can take those same pieces and build something different, like a Thieve's Guild. Or I can buy an encounter set from Reaper or Wizkids but use those miniatures however I like. Or I can buy individual monsters or packs of terrain.

I think that's all they are describing.

From my perspective, this sounds like an opportunity for folks to experience tactical miniatures-based play at a fraction of the cost of buying actual miniatures and terrain. On the other hand, I like buying and collecting and painting my physical miniatures and terrain, so a virtual tabletop is less appealing to me.

 

[Velderan]

In my mind, this sounds pretty much like how buying physical miniatures and terrain works. For example, I might buy a set from Dwarven Forge that lets me make a particular build that they've advertised (like the Docks District in their current Kickstarter). But I can take those same pieces and build something different, like a Thieve's Guild. Or I can buy an encounter set from Reaper or Wizkids but use those miniatures however I like. Or I can buy individual monsters or packs of terrain.

I think that's all they are describing.

From my perspective, this sounds like an opportunity for folks to experience tactical miniatures-based play at a fraction of the cost of buying actual miniatures and terrain. On the other hand, I like buying and collecting and painting my physical miniatures and terrain, so a virtual tabletop is less appealing to me.

Yep! I've lost count of the number of times I've bought a set of minis that was clearly designed to be for a particular adventure or scene, but I wasn't planning to play that and thought enough of the pieces could be used for another idea I had.

My only hesitation on a 3D VTT having that model is you're locked into using those items for that game only and if down the road WotC decides to shut the 3D VTT down, you're probably out the money you spent on stuff for it since you're not actually buying those items but rather a license to use them under the terms they're offered under. I've spent thousands of dollars on stuff from WizKids and Reaper knowing it's all system neutral and I own the minis and can use them for whatever game I play. At least a 3D VTT done right should cost much less as you've noted.

 

[Retreater]

In my mind, this sounds pretty much like how buying physical miniatures and terrain works. For example, I might buy a set from Dwarven Forge that lets me make a particular build that they've advertised (like the Docks District in their current Kickstarter). But I can take those same pieces and build something different, like a Thieve's Guild. Or I can buy an encounter set from Reaper or Wizkids but use those miniatures however I like. Or I can buy individual monsters or packs of terrain.

I think that's all they are describing.

From my perspective, this sounds like an opportunity for folks to experience tactical miniatures-based play at a fraction of the cost of buying actual miniatures and terrain. On the other hand, I like buying and collecting and painting my physical miniatures and terrain, so a virtual tabletop is less appealing to me.

Right. I am also a fan of collecting and painting miniatures, building terrain, etc.
My concern is that we don't "need" Dwarven Forge or great minis to run a physical game - though it sure is nice.
But on the VTT, maybe you will "HAVE" to get the black dragon digital mini to use the stats for a black dragon. My understanding is that in games like MtG Arena, you can't use cards that you don't own. I think this will be similar.
And I'm not sure if the digital tokens will actually be at a "fraction of the cost." I expect the digital miniatures to end up costing about the same as what an equivalent Reaper mini would cost - with the added complication that WotC can yank it from you at any time.

 

[Parmandur]

I'm not concerned about the aesthetics. I'm worried about having to assemble what you can have in your VTT games piecemeal.
For example, the black dragon featured in the reveal trailer. One of the designers was saying that you buy pre-made modules and then you can use the assets to create your own game.
In my mind, this is like buying a "black dragon lair" adventure. Then later you have access to the stats for a black dragon and can include it in a game. So you are gradually building up a traditional Monster Manual for the VTT, probably for hundreds of dollars of individual transactions as opposed to buying (for example) the Monster Manual for $30 on Roll20.
Granted, this is MUCH less of a concern now that we know they're leaving the other VTTs alone. Because if this was going to be the only way to play the game online, I'd have to be out. Not only because of the cost, but also because we'd likely be waiting years for them to release all the creatures we're used to accessing for adventures.

I'm sure there will be tons of options, priced so as to maximize profit, i.e., what the market will bear. I won't use any of it, but even if I did I wouldn't worried.

 

[Parmandur]

You're extremely optimistic.
I don't expect it to ever leave tech demo status.

People seem to.keep forgett8ng this, but...WotC is now a wildly successful software developer. Magic: Arena (built by the same people as the VTT, notably) is a very fun and functional money printing machine. Recent executive hires come from the game software world. This isn't 2008, WotC actually has expertise in this field now. I'd write they come up with something, and get it on a lot of platforms.