• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 4E My Warlord Concept - Why Does 4e Fail?

Status
Not open for further replies.

GnomeWorks

Adventurer
My gaming group has decided to give 4e a chance. Our summer campaign will be core 4e - but no dragonborn or tieflings, because our DM doesn't like them (he is fine with tieflings, but dislikes the new look for them in 4e).

I started thinking about what I want to play. I've been around the block a bit, and I've played pretty much every race/class combo in the 3.5 core, so I wanted something a bit different. I settled on a warlord, because it seems interesting.

My immediate thought thereafter was to make a warforged warlord wearing warplate riding a warhorse, called Wayne. I then decided that if I'm going to give 4e a fair chance, that I shouldn't go into it with a character that mocks WotC's naming conventions and horrible choice of artists (because, frankly, I can't stand WAR's art). So I decided to go with a human warlord - fairly straightforward. I also decided that I would never refer to myself as a "warlord," but rather as a "tactician" (because, frankly, WotC seems utterly incapable of coming up with solid names. But names can be changed, so I'm not that worked up about it).

Earlier last week, I'd watched The Godfather (and the second part) for the first time, and was rather impressed with it (though a bit irritated by the excessive Italian, of which I have no understanding, but it was flavorful, and I could figure out what was going on sometimes via context clues, so no big deal). So my character concept began along those lines: second son of a noble family, deals with administrative tasks and all that jazz, sort of deals with other things his older brother shouldn't deal with, to ensure that his reputation stays nice and clean. Something sort of like the younger Vito from the second part, if you've seen the movies.

I also wanted to make him fairly well-read; this isn't a dumb guy. So he's read a good deal of history, and has a solid understanding of warfare tactics. Again, this ties into the whole family thing - his brother handles the actual fighting, and my character would deal with the tactics of the situation. So I'm thinking high Int, moderate Wis and Cha. Not even concerned with physical stats - they should probably be fairly average. His shtick isn't being strong. It's being smart and manipulative.

I decided that, while he carries a sword, he prefers a ranged weapon. I managed to talk the DM into letting me have a gun, mechanically identical to a crossbow; this is primarily because I like tech, and guns are neater than crossbows, IMO. Just a flavor change, but key to the character's appearance. It's going to be his signature weapon, and says a lot about his style.

So here I am, all excited to take a look at the 4e PH lite, to figure out what sort of powers the warlord could use that would go hand-in-hand with the character concept. I'm not looking to be useless in combat - I want to be support, pretty much. The idea is that I don't do the heavy lifting, I get somebody else to do that. Seems like something the warlord should be able to handle, right? Maybe the class isn't built for it, but one would think there might be some systemic support for that sort of character, right?

Of course not.

I read the PH lite, and I am incredibly disappointed. The warlord stands toe-to-toe with the baddies, alongside the fighter and paladin? WTH? Sure, I can see how that's a standard fantasy trope, the general leading his armies and what-not, but absolutely no support for the guy who stands back and directs things from a distance?

Not only that, but all his friggin' abilities are keyed off of hitting guys in melee. So you can't lead a group of ranged combatants with the same sort of inspirational presence as you can a bunch of melee'ers? What is this garbage?

I am seriously disappointed that my character concept simply cannot work in the system. It doesn't. I don't want a melee fighter, I want a support character who doesn't use magic. The warlord - despite it's awkward name - seemed like the perfect fit for this character. But apparently not.

This is why 4e is a step backwards. Classes are straight-jackets, once again - that's fantastic. I have access to eight incredibly cliche fantasy character concepts, with perhaps a couple of minor variants upon their themes. But I can't bring a concept like the one above and realize it, at least somewhat, with the mechanics, while staying true to the concept.

I have a feeling that our "fair chance" for 4e is going to rapidly turn into us playing something else. Because this seems rather lame.

Is it possible that the PH will have more options for me? Sure, I suppose it might. But the class description for the warlord has already been previewed - surely those are pretty final by now? And that description was pretty admaant that the warlord is a front-line fighter, and that Strength is the most important ability score. This says to me that my concept, as far as I have envisioned it, is simply not workable.

Very, very lame.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Kishin

First Post
I have a hard time seeing you as 'giving the system a fair chance' when you spend your first two paragraphs insulting it (and even pepper the rest of your text with it).

Of course not all concepts are going to be viable at first. All the mechanical options you have from eight years of 3E are not going to be there to help you represent that character.

You could, however, rework the class with your DM, and simply key it off ranged attacks.

Complaining about it not being able to represent the breadth of options available in systems with far more support material is like complaining about water being wet.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
I also find it pretty funny that your DM won't allow Tieflings because he doesn't like the ART but will houserule guns. What's so hard about saying that Tieflings look different in your game? Do you always use stock-art to show what your character looks like?

I'd point out the obvious fact that the PrRC doesn't have all the Warlord powers, but, well... it's so obvious.

Fitz
 

DandD

First Post
I ask one question. What's the question that we should discuss all together? I just see another rant from an user who is known for not liking D&D 4th edition.

Is this thread meant to be taken seriously, or an attempt to flame-bait? If it's the latter, I think it's better to inform the moderators as quickly as possible.
 

Mal Malenkirk

First Post
GnomeWorks said:
Not only that, but all his friggin' abilities are keyed off of hitting guys in melee. So you can't lead a group of ranged combatants with the same sort of inspirational presence as you can a bunch of melee'ers? What is this garbage?

Actually, being inspirational without being in the thick of it never made much sense to me. Anyone who has ever been in a brawl knows that you tune out what happens outside of it so if there's a guy with wonky pistol in the back shouting encouragement (or a bard singing a silly tune for that matter), it's not going to impress you much. Now if he lends a hand, that's something else. You'll notice him and pay attention.

For the tactical powers (Those keyed to INT rather than CHA), we know they don't all require melee. We already know about a power that let all your team mate take a ranged attack, for example. I expect you can shoot yourself if you have a ranged weapon prepared.

It's the difference from the leadership offered by your sergeant (CHA) and your lieutenant (Hopefull INT or else you are in trouble). One can be done from the rear and the other can't.
 
Last edited:

Pistonrager

First Post
ugh... so many problems...

1. don't base much off the phb lite...
2. just because you've played everything in 3.5 doesn't mean anything in 4E
3. you rant to be a ranged tactician? play a ranger and bark out orders, maybe multiclass to get some of the non-melee based abilities. remember, just because your class role sets your basic combat options you do get to roleplay the character, order people around, tell them to flank or whatever...

4. though you are free to play whatever you want and all that... Gun? seriously? I've had character ideas that would be cooler with a gun, but unless the lot's of people in the world use guns.. you shouldn't. it becomes a game where the DM HAS to feed you specific weapons, but if the DM makes it part of the world that's not a real problem.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
Keep in mind that D&D is a game about combat. All classes should be able to fight. If it can't fight, it isn't a concept for a D&D class. HOW it fights will be different from class to class: Some throwing fireballs, some shooting eldrich blasts, some hitting with a sword, some with a bow, some calling holy energy down from the sky.

The warlord is a military commander that leads a small group into battle. They are suitable for an Orc chieftain or the commander of a group of mercenaries.
 

I find it a little odd that you made a character concept, chose a class, and then looked to see if the class would fit. In any RPG that can lead you to problems. You would have problems making that character concept from the first PHB 3E (or any previous edition) and even with the cascade of splat that 3E has given birth might not exactly supply your wishes. What you expected a class to be was incorrect, I would find that disappointing rather than lame. I guess you must be very disappointed, but your post comes across as very anti-4E - not all giving it a go.

Like 3E and any before you will have to do some tweaking to get that exact model you are after. If your DM is happy enough to introduce a 'Desert Eagle point five oh' into the campaign he should be OK with some tweaking of the powers to work with ranged weapons.

However I agree with your point that 4Es classes seem very tightly defined (although I reserve judgement until I see all the powers). I think that some people will be disappointed and there is going to be a lot of people holding out for fan and splat classes.
 

Baron Opal

First Post
GnomeWorks said:
I read the PH lite, and I am incredibly disappointed.

You're kidding.

Read the PHB, then get back to us.

Even so, with about 6 seconds worth of thought, I think a warlord multiclassed with ranger or vice versa would fit your character to a tee.

GnomeWorks said:
Very, very lame.

And very,very short sighted on your part. You don't have access to even 1% of the necesary information. Read the rules, the whole rules, and then let us know if your concept isn't supported. Then I will believe you whole heartedly.
 

Vaeron

Explorer
GnomeWorks said:
My immediate thought thereafter was to make a warforged warlord wearing warplate riding a warhorse, called Wayne. I then decided that if I'm going to give 4e a fair chance, that I shouldn't go into it with a character that mocks WotC's naming conventions and horrible choice of artists (because, frankly, I can't stand WAR's art). So I decided to go with a human warlord - fairly straightforward. I also decided that I would never refer to myself as a "warlord," but rather as a "tactician" (because, frankly, WotC seems utterly incapable of coming up with solid names. But names can be changed, so I'm not that worked up about it).

Uh... Yes, that's quite the "fair chance" you're giving it. Nitpicking and hating it even BEFORE you even come up with the character isn't the best way to go in with an open mind, I suspect.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top