Just discovered Castles and Crusades

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We will execute a mission to retrieve them.

 

[deganawida]

Has your friend played C&C yet or just have the books?
Maybe you need to run a few sessions to show the ability of the system.

He has the books. I got overly excited and let him borrow them before I had fully absorbed everything. It was Thanksgiving, and he works in education, so had time off. I think he used it to catch up on sleep, instead (can't really blame him for that).

 

[Jahydin]

Well, I was hoping that he'd like enough to convert his campaign to them. I'm planning on doing both a C&C and SWADE campaign (the latter may end up just a one-shot, depending upon how the group reacts), but I also want to play C&C.

Too cool, good luck.

If you're doing fantasy in SWADE, check out Tyrnador. I can't shut up about it because of how much fun I had running that campaign.

 

[Jahydin]

@bulletmeat
What do you think of this rewrite? Any clearer?

Basic SIEGE (BaSIEGE) ​

Summary:​

BaSIEGE tweaks C&C’s engine a bit to make Skill Checks and Saves easier for both the players and the CK. It does this by breaking down the Challenge Level (CL) gradient of -10 to 10 into just three levels of Difficulty: Easy (CL -3), Average (CL 0), Hard (CL 3).

BaSEIGE also makes characters a little more versatile since it uses the Optional Tertiary Attribute rule in the CKG. This allows characters to select 2 Secondary Attributes (CB 15) at creation.

BaSIEGE also makes Checks and Saves easier by lowering the characters’ CBs by 1 every even Level they gain. Spellcasters beware!

Rules:​

Levels are no longer added to die rolls! CBs are reduced by 1 every even Level though.

Checks: The CK now just decides if the task is Easy (CL -3), Average (CL 0), or Hard (CL 3).

Saves: Saving is always Average Difficulty, unless the character is 3 Levels higher or lower, in which case it becomes Easy or Hard respectively.

Suggestions:​

Because of the nature of BaSIEGE, it is recommended all Challenge Classes (CCs) be written down beforehand for each Attribute. This allows players to roll and quickly tell the CK the Difficulty they succeeded at.

Recommended Optional Rules:​

1. Although the three Difficulties listed will take care of 90% of all rolls, sometimes the CK might want a little more. In which case, use the following:

Very Easy (CL -6), Easy (CL -3), Average (CL 0), Hard (CL 3), Heroic (CL 6), Legendary (CL 9)​

2. Instead of using CBs 12, 15, 18 for Prime, Secondary, and Non-Prime, use 13, 16, 19. This keeps the numbers more reasonable as the characters progress in Levels.

 

[Andvari]

A hilarious quote from the Castle Keeper's Guide on character death.

As outlined in the Players Handbook, a character dies when they reach negative 10 hit points. At this point, the character is removed from play until they are resurrected or reincarnated or brought back in some manner acceptable to the Castle Keeper and in keeping with the rules of the campaign and game. The character is dead, but the player of course goes on and makes another character because Castles & Crusades is, after all, only a game. The core rules of C&C do not allow players to become too attached to their characters. Allowing a character's death to be more than a passing nuisance is improperly using the Siege Engine.

How does the Castle Keeper evaluate if a player has become too attached to their character? And how would a player go about reducing attachment once caught breaking the rules by being too attached?

My charitable guess is what the author intends to convey is that because it's quick to roll up a new character, and because the GM (hopefully) doesn't hinge the entire campaign on the dead character, the death is just "a passing nuisance" in their view.

 

[Jahydin]

My charitable guess is what the author intends to convey is that because it's quick to roll up a new character, and because the GM (hopefully) doesn't hinge the entire campaign on the dead character, the death is just "a passing nuisance" in their view.

Yes, it's just setting expectations going in.

C&C's excitement is knowing there is no "plot armor" like modern games, so having extra characters on hand is a must.

In my games, I don't even let them name their characters until Lv 3.

 

[deganawida]

Dungeon Musings has a good overview, for anyone curious, and they also share their house rules:

Castles & Crusades - An Impromptu Overview

Tonight, I take a look at Troll Lord Games' excellent Castles & Crusades, which we have adopted as the rules set for two of our ongoing campaigns. You can f...

www.youtube.com

 

[bulletmeat]

@bulletmeat
What do you think of this rewrite? Any clearer?

Basic SIEGE (BaSIEGE) ​

Summary:​

BaSIEGE tweaks C&C’s engine a bit to make Skill Checks and Saves easier for both the players and the CK. It does this by breaking down the Challenge Level (CL) gradient of -10 to 10 into just three levels of Difficulty: Easy (CL -3), Average (CL 0), Hard (CL 3).

BaSEIGE also makes characters a little more versatile since it uses the Optional Tertiary Attribute rule in the CKG. This allows characters to select 2 Secondary Attributes (CB 15) at creation.

BaSIEGE also makes Checks and Saves easier by lowering the characters’ CBs by 1 every even Level they gain. Spellcasters beware!

Rules:​

Levels are no longer added to die rolls! CBs are reduced by 1 every even Level though.

Checks: The CK now just decides if the task is Easy (CL -3), Average (CL 0), or Hard (CL 3).

Saves: Saving is always Average Difficulty, unless the character is 3 Levels higher or lower, in which case it becomes Easy or Hard respectively.

Suggestions:​

Because of the nature of BaSIEGE, it is recommended all Challenge Classes (CCs) be written down beforehand for each Attribute. This allows players to roll and quickly tell the CK the Difficulty they succeeded at.

Recommended Optional Rules:​

1. Although the three Difficulties listed will take care of 90% of all rolls, sometimes the CK might want a little more. In which case, use the following:

Very Easy (CL -6), Easy (CL -3), Average (CL 0), Hard (CL 3), Heroic (CL 6), Legendary (CL 9)​

2. Instead of using CBs 12, 15, 18 for Prime, Secondary, and Non-Prime, use 13, 16, 19. This keeps the numbers more reasonable as the characters progress in Levels.

I see where you are going with this and it makes sense. Over a decade ago I looked at doing something similar, CB reduced by two ever 3 levels vs level bonuses. And it worked but players (especially from more modern gaming tables) tended to like their bonuses going up vs difficulty going down. That caused me to go back and decide it was easier to look at bonus to rolls.
That & I'm too lazy/an old curmudgeon to worry about Tertiary checks.

Also, back in 2011/2012 WotC had an article on challenge level names or something & talked about different names for difficulty: Novice, Journeyman, Expert, Master, Grandmaster, Godly. Something like that. I feel those difficulty names might be better for your optional rule. The Very Easy to Legendary just reminds me of Star Wars D6 to much. But that's just a personal thing.

Otherwise, play it out and let us know how it runs. I'm interested to hear.

 

[Jahydin]

Also, back in 2011/2012 WotC had an article on challenge level names or something & talked about different names for difficulty: Novice, Journeyman, Expert, Master, Grandmaster, Godly. Something like that. I feel those difficulty names might be better for your optional rule. The Very Easy to Legendary just reminds me of Star Wars D6 to much. But that's just a personal thing.

Oh thank you, that does sound better. There were just kind of place holders until I found something better.

My first draft was: Hard, Harder, Much Harder, Hardest.

 

[bulletmeat]

My first draft was: Hard, Harder, Much Harder, Hardest.

That sounds like a very different game.