D&D 3E/3.5 Hide in 3.5

[danzig138]

Is this implying that creatures who don't have a power to see invisibility, with a sufficiently high spot roll, can still SEE them?

See them? Not necessarily, but since Spot (DC 20) can allow a character to detect a nearby invisible creature in 3.0, 3.5 may require a Hide check from the invisible being to oppose the spotter's Spot check or some such.

 

[LokiDR]

This may seem simpler, but it requires some use of a battlemat or other orientation system so you tell if a person has cover from a person.

If you hide behind a column, and some one walks around that column, you can not hide. You need to determine cover, and the hiding character needs to stay in it.

The torch and concealment rules are welcome. The former for logical reasons. The latter for simplicity. I would have prefered compression of cover and concealment together, but you can't have everything.

 

[Nail]

sneaking up behind someone happens everytime someone with an int stat above 3 tries to sneak up on someone.

Agreed.

But it's also assumed that the person/thing being stalked is looking around, trying NOT to be caught unawares.

The guard that stands at attention, looking only forward while guarding, is fun, sure, but it shouldn't be the norm.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Agreed.

But it's also assumed that the person/thing being stalked is looking around, trying NOT to be caught unawares.

The guard that stands at attention, looking only forward while guarding, is fun, sure, but it shouldn't be the norm.

yeah and how well and often the person looks around is defined by the spot skill. How well someone finds the holes in a persons perception is defined by the hide skill. I liked keeping both hide and spot abstract.

IMO this is a much bigger hit to the sneaking types than it would of been to give every class spot and listen as class skills.

I totally could of accepted cirsumstance modifiers, and I applied them myself on the fly all the time. But an absolute ban on sneaking up on someone without cover or concealment doesn't work well for me because I a non heroic type can and have done it on multiple occasions.

 

[Plane Sailing]

since there is no facing I hate this rule.

Before I could abstractly say even though there isn't cover mr x could sneak up on mr Y. Now mr Y can never be snuck up unless he's standing right next to some cover.

I think you are forgetting about the listen and move silently rules!

It seems obvious to me that those are the skills which you would use to sneak up behind someone when their back is turned.

Cheers

 

[green slime]

Not that I have access to the new 3.5 rules, but I'd have thought that, gamewise, if you started your action "hidden" then you would remain "hidden" until the end of your action.

Thus if you were "hiding", you could rush up (move silently to remain quiet) and stab someone (sneak attack), after which you couldn't really be said to be hiding.

You could also dash from one cover to another (move action), applying move silently again to avoid getting heard, and hiding again behind the new cover (standard action).

Because I'd assume the character would time his rush when the inattention of his adversaries was at its greatest.

 

[hong]

I think you are forgetting about the listen and move silently rules!

It seems obvious to me that those are the skills which you would use to sneak up behind someone when their back is turned.

Well, technically, there is no "back" in D&D any more. Notice how it's called "sneak attack", not "backstab", for example.

It seems clear to me that the rule is given for application in combat. Situations outside combat have to be handled via c*mm*n s*nse, but then that's not any different to how it goes in 3E.

 

[Tharizdun]

As a DM: the rule makes perfect sense. Bravo!
As a player: I'll find other ways to be unseen

And you know why--I shall mention his name this once--Borval!!!!

However, I find it odd that a rogue does not gain the "hide in plain sight" (ex) ability (which a ranger gains at 17th level)...this would be extremely useful. perhaps a level or two as shadowdancer will do the trick ;-)

 

[green slime]

However, I find it odd that a rogue does not gain the "hide in plain sight" (ex) ability (which a ranger gains at 17th level)...this would be extremely useful. perhaps a level or two as shadowdancer will do the trick ;-)

It IS odd. And a real pain in the neck. Because now every rogue on the block will be a shadowdancer. How is that for prestige?

 

[Usurpator]

The new Hide skill rules may be more logical, and even more balanced, but I like the way the Hide skill was abstracted in 3.0. I always assumed a proficient rogue made use of any kind of concealment, distraction etc. to hide himself, much like zebra's hide from lion's by using their black/white stripes to their advantage.

Now I am afraid for all kinds of discussions with the DM, for you have to rely more your DM's rulings when you can use it.

Can I hide here in this cave, do the irregular walls of the cave provide cover? What if a creature with darkvision strolls by after you have hidden behind a pillar? Will your rogue automatically be revealed? Are you allowed to move around the pillar as the creature with darkvision passes?

And what about those cloaks of elvenkind. According to their LOTR history they 'blended' with their background. Would it not be logical for such cloaks to allow their wearer to hide even in bright light?