Attention! Cosmology Discussion!

[Knight Otu]

I mentioned this in the current General Discussion thread, but I think it is a big enough concern to deserve its own thread. Currently, we use a format that looks much like this:

Name
Pronounciation
Nicknames

Deity Status
Symbol:
Home Plane:
Alignment:
Portfolio:
Worshippers:
Cleric Alignments:
Domains:
Favored Weapon:

Does anyone think we should switch to the XPH/CD format, which is:

Name
Deity Status (Alignment)
Description, with paragraphs on worshipers, symbol, (potentially home plane) and favored weapon.

Portfolio:
Domains:
Cleric Training: (Potentially Cleric Alignments)
Quests:
Prayers:
Temples:
Rites:
Herald and Allies: The herald is the kind of creature a deity sends to the material plane when it needs to intervene in mortal affairs, usually a CR 13-15; Allies are those creatures usually sent as planar allies, as per the spell chain.

I can see a few problems with switching formats, one of which is the varying amount of detail given the gods, which range from low (Hyrag) to extreme (Jareth).
There is also the question of home planes. Currently, Enworld has no set planar cosmology. Many gods have been assigned to standard planes of the Great Wheel. Since the Great Wheel is not in the SRD, I would argue that we need a different cosmology, but keep is "wheel-shaped".

I attached a file that lists the currently approved deities.

 

[Knight Otu]

A potential planar setup, a bit "wheely", a bit odd:

A ring of Elemental planes (Air-Fire-Earth-Water-Air, with the appropriate in-between planes). The Material Plane is the "center" of the ring. From each plane, "whirls" of elemental power tainted with positive/negative energy "drop" to:

The Energy Plane, a combination of Positive and Negative Energy plane. Within this plane, streams of one energy "chase" and move the Center (maybe enormous citadels) of the other energy. Streams that hit the Center move it, and are converted into the opposing energy (think ying-yan). A stream of matter connects this to:

The Outer Planes. Nine planes, one for each alignment (the stream of matter could turn into a mountain/pillar on the N plane). Each plane has some common themes, and maybe some kind of "entry layer", but several (possibly infinite) layers that can be reached by wanting to travel there. Layers farther from the common layers have less interest in Enworld, and turn progressively stranger.

 

[El Jefe]

Hey, Knight OTU, could you expound on that cosmology a bit? I know it makes sense to you, but when I try to visualize it, I see several "centers" (either that, or the Material Plane is getting blasted by streams of matter from every which way!)

So, I think you've got the EnWorld disk in the center, with an energy "ring" around it, and "below" that the "energy plane". Streams "drop" from the ring to the "energy plane", which looks (from "above", from the direction of the materal plane) like a big yin-yang symbol. There's a "positive dot" in the midst of the negative part of the plane, and a "negative dot" in the midst of the positive part of the plane, again, just like a yin-yang symbol. And each "dot" is a "citadel" or adventure location, or at least something a little more defined than just "swirls of energy".

First, does that make sense and seem close to how you visualize the material, elemental, and energy planes? If so, what is the ENWorphant "walking" on? Nothing? The energy plane? Another part of the material plane? Just trying to visualize all this.

Second, how are the outer planes oriented? "Outside" of the elemental planes? Or "outside" of (surrounding) the energy plane? Or does it even matter? Finally, where is the neutral plane? It would seem to make sense that it is somehow "between" all the outer planes, but it seems like all the real estate "between" the outer planes is spoken for. Or maybe the ENWorphant "walks" on the neutral plane...

Anyway, this is a discussion that's been dormant for a long time, and since sooner or later someone's going to want to run an EnWorld "planar" adventure, I thought it would be good to ressurrect it.

 

[Knight Otu]

Don't put too much weight on the belows and aboves - while they describe the setup as though it were 3d, that is not the case. The material plane, with ENWorld, is the uppermost, surrounded by the elemental ring. If this has a visual effect on the Material plane, it is propably on the stars in "proximity" of the elemental planes, and on whatever zodiak Enworld has.
"Beneath" the elemental ring, is the energy plane.
The Outer Planar setup is a lot like the Great Wheel we all know, except the number of planes. The neutral plane lies in the center, and this is where the stream of matter turns up from the energy plane. As I mentioned, it might turn into a pillar or mountain a la the Spire in the Outlands, but that may be too much "quoting".

The outer planes might have an infinite amount of layers, as I mentioned, with less and less interest in the material plane (or ability to reach it). The farthest of these layers might be used as the Far Realms or their equivalent.

Here's a small ugly diagram that I hope helps visualizing the whole thing a bit better (gray e is the Ethereal. Blue s is Shadow):

 _____
([COLOR=DimGray]e[/COLOR]MaP[COLOR=Navy]s[/COLOR])
 -----
 | | |
 _____
(+ / -)
 -----
   |
   ^
  / \
 -   -
(Outer)
 -----

That said, I am in no ways married to the idea that the cosmology has to be "wheely," and I'd like to see other suggestions.

 

[El Jefe]

Actually, that all answers things quite nicely, with one exception: What is the EnWorphant "walking" on? If the answer is the energy plane, then I'm ready to declare victory and say we have a cosmology concept.

 

[Knight Otu]

That is a good question... technically, it walks through the cosmos, somehow. I'm not sure how it would walk "on" the energy plane (following one of the citadels?)... and what consequences that would have.

 

[El Jefe]

Well, now that you mention it, I suppose it could walk "in" the Astral plane, which to my mind would be a sort of "walking through the cosmos". I guess that makes sense to me, since I recall there's a bit of EnWorld lore that anyone falling off the world disk will wind up in another plane. At the least, that person would end up in the Astral plane, and with a little luck could find themselves on either the Energy plane or one of the Outer planes.

Does that wrap it up?

 

[Knight Otu]

I'm not sure if ending up on the energy plane would count as luck...

I'd like to hear a few more comments. Though I guess I could simply say "It is!" and it is...

 

[Knight Otu]

There are basically two options to hopefully increase the number of comments. I can call for attention in the thread title, or I ask for this thread to be ignored (always a surefire way to get someone to look). I think I'll go the first route for now.

 

[Dungannon]

I really have no big ideas on how the whole "cosmology" thing should be configured, but I do like the idea the the ENWorphant is travelling through the Astral Plane, with a big pocket of the Material Plane on his back.