We Still Need ORC

[GMforPowergamers]

This is actually getting really frustrating. People that say "they put the 5E SRD under creative commons; everything is fine!" obviously do not see any actual value in Open Gaming. The only value they see is them getting more stuff for their 5E game. They are not thinking about creators or community or the future and extents of the hobby and industry. Which is fine. You are allowed to just want the stuff you want. But don't act like other people are being unreasonable for calling your, or WotC, out. And certainly don't act like the OGL is suddenly not a problem because "obviously" WotC or Hasbro would never try such a thing again.

don't pretend like people don't care about the future... anyone who WANTS to add to the open gaming can realse anything they want with the CC license.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I wouldn't recommend that anyone bet their life savings or take out a mortgage to back a TTRPG publication, under any conditions whatsoever.

yeah, my understanding is that at the best of times if you are not HASBRO, you aren't makeing real good money

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Absolutely we do. Wizards can yank the OGL 1.0a at any time. They only gave a promise on a social media post. That promise - with no legal backing at all - is the only thing that is keeping alive Pathfinder, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Old School Essentials, and most other games not explicitly based on 5th edition.

Actually they can't legally, I suspect realizing that is part of why they backed down, realized they wouldn't win the legal battle so were pissing folks off for nothing.

 

[Reynard]

yeah, my understanding is that at the best of times if you are not HASBRO, you aren't makeing real good money

So no one besides Hasbro should start a TTRPG business? That's a weird take.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

So no one besides Hasbro should start a TTRPG business? That's a weird take.

no, but you shouldn't plan on makeing a ton of money... noone should go into it expecting to make 100.000

 

[Parmandur]

So no one besides Hasbro should start a TTRPG business? That's a weird take.

No, nobody should put their life savings or house on the line for a low income pursuit.

 

[MoonSong]

You see "open gaming" is the more closed system that depends on a just trust us vibe, whereas Creative Commons is the actually open system, with the law on its side.

It isn't black and white. The OGL has many advantages:
It is considerably easier to use for second and later generation works, has a built in mechanism for trademarks, plotline, and character protection, and (most important) it has a built in existing commons and it is gigantic.

CC isn't as useful for RPGs because it was created for mostly 'serious' work -more academic, less literary-, and to prevent plagiarism, not to enable it. CC doesn't asume your work will be remixed and modified in a seamless way, but rather quoted faithfully piecemeal, and it doesn't give a lot of guidance for doing the opposite. Particularly the requirement to indicate clearly how you are modifying the work, which is rather unwieldy and leads to disjointed and unusable rulebooks. And no, the "reasonable" doesn't help, because it is a very subjective qualifier. And the CC foundation doesn't help because they haven't even conceived that kind of usage, let alone show usan example of how to do it.

 

[bedir than]

It isn't black and white. The OGL has many advantages:
It is considerably easier to use for second and later generation works, has a built in mechanism for trademarks, plotline, and character protection, and (most important) it has a built in existing commons and it is gigantic.

CC isn't as useful for RPGs because it was created for mostly 'serious' work -more academic, less literary-, and to prevent plagiarism, not to enable it. CC doesn't asume your work will be remixed and modified in a seamless way, but rather quoted faithfully piecemeal, and it doesn't give a lot of guidance for doing the opposite. Particularly the requirement to indicate clearly how you are modifying the work, which is rather unwieldy and leads to disjointed and unusable rulebooks. And no, the "reasonable" doesn't help, because it is a very subjective qualifier. And the CC foundation doesn't help because they haven't even conceived that kind of usage, let alone show usan example of how to do it.

There are actual guidances as to how to remix and reuse via the Creative Commons. There's even a specific license to forbid this and one to empower it.

The Commons also provides guidance on how to mark things when done this way, and they aren't burdensome.

Only those elements you release to others are released to others. Those elements created by others should be shared under the instruction of their license. Remixes, when allowed, should be mentioned.

All of this is common, clear and defined on at CreativeCommon.org
None of this was designed for "primarily academic works." More than 2 billion works have been released under the Creative Commons. To act as if it is some kind of burden to not plagiarize from others is absurd.

CC isn't as useful for RPGs because it was created for mostly 'serious' work -more academic, less literary-, and to prevent plagiarism, not to enable it.

Other RPG companies have handled this. There's already 5e compatible material coming out using it. It's simple and easy enough that bloggers, musicians, artists, videographers, authors, etc have been using the CC for two decades.

 

[Parmandur]

It isn't black and white. The OGL has many advantages:
It is considerably easier to use for second and later generation works, has a built in mechanism for trademarks, plotline, and character protection, and (most important) it has a built in existing commons and it is gigantic.

CC isn't as useful for RPGs because it was created for mostly 'serious' work -more academic, less literary-, and to prevent plagiarism, not to enable it. CC doesn't asume your work will be remixed and modified in a seamless way, but rather quoted faithfully piecemeal, and it doesn't give a lot of guidance for doing the opposite. Particularly the requirement to indicate clearly how you are modifying the work, which is rather unwieldy and leads to disjointed and unusable rulebooks. And no, the "reasonable" doesn't help, because it is a very subjective qualifier. And the CC foundation doesn't help because they haven't even conceived that kind of usage, let alone show usan example of how to do it.

WotC actually provides a citation format in the CC SRD. Look at M. T. Black's new PHB to see how this can be used smoothly and easily.

At this Pooja, the OGL just doesn't offer much for most creators.

 

[mamba]

It isn't black and white. The OGL has many advantages:

not really

It is considerably easier to use for second and later generation works, has a built in mechanism for trademarks, plotline, and character protection, and (most important) it has a built in existing commons and it is gigantic.

yes, there is more D&D material available under OGL than CC, that has no bearing on how suitable the license terms are

CC isn't as useful for RPGs because it was created for mostly 'serious' work -more academic, less literary-, and to prevent plagiarism, not to enable it. CC doesn't asume your work will be remixed and modified in a seamless way, but rather quoted faithfully piecemeal, and it doesn't give a lot of guidance for doing the opposite.

there is guidance out there, not sure there is more guidance for the OGL either, maybe there are more examples, but even that is doubtful - unless you limit it to TTRPGs

4.4 Remixing CC-Licensed Work | Creative Commons Certificate for Educators, Academic Librarians and GLAM

certificates.creativecommons.org

Particularly the requirement to indicate clearly how you are modifying the work, which is rather unwieldy and leads to disjointed and unusable rulebooks. And no, the "reasonable" doesn't help, because it is a very subjective qualifier. And the CC foundation doesn't help because they haven't even conceived that kind of usage, let alone show usan example of how to do it.

there is no need to specify how you modify a work. It really is no more difficult than under the OGL, I have no idea what you base your ideas on