The aggravating five foot move.

[Helspar]

The five foot move where it aggravates me the most is how someone can step easily out of combat with no ability of his/her opponent doing anything to prevent their action. Example step back shoot bow,drink potion, cast spell, etc. What ever happened to the old 2ed Combat and Tactics where stepping out of combat provoked an attack of opportunity? Moving in combat was also controlled by whoever could press the advantage. If you succeeded in your attack, but your opponent did not in theirs you could force them back, and potentially press them. The one being pressed could then be manuvered by the attacker, potentially putting them in a bad position. Really, once melle is engaged in most cases in a do or die scenario, combat is only disengaged by the death of one of the combatants.

 

[noretoc]

The DMG actually says that rounds are an abstraction, that combat should be considered as simultaneous, with rounds and initiative as just ways to tell who goes first.

Nope this is an assumption from 2nd edition. The players handbook says (I'm sorry, I can't find the specific quote now, when I have more time I will edit this) each person goes on thier inititive, right after the last person. Things happen one after another, not all at the same time. I know this is a bit wierd for some of it. Example each person has six seconds, in a six second round, but it makes less problems. When you both swing a sword, the person with init swings first, then you. Not both at the same time.

 

[The Sigil]

Solution...

The five foot move where it aggravates me the most is how someone can step easily out of combat with no ability of his/her opponent doing anything to prevent their action.

Not true... I can ready an action... my readied action is "move into the square my opponent vacates" with the trigger being "if my opponent leaves the square he is currently in." Works especially well if I'm hasted hasted... since readying an action is a partial action, I first attack you with my full-round action then with my bonus partial action (from haste) I ready "step into his square if he moves."

My opponent takes his 5' step backwards. I immediately stride 5' forwards. Obviously, if all he takes is a 5' step, he's adjacent to the square he just left (and which I just entered). He shoots his bow or casts his spell and draws an AoO. Next round, I use a full attack then use my partial action (from haste) to ready my step again.

Alternatively, I suppose I could ready a Trip attack if he moves to keep him there.

It might be worth exploring adding a Feat similar to the Feral Ravager's "Master of his Domain" ability (or whatever it be called). Suppose it allows you to make an opposed attack roll to your opponent's Tumble check if he tries to move - anywhere - when in your threatened area. If you win, he's stuck (you don't hurt him with your attack roll, though) and can't move - not even 5' - this round.

Example step back shoot bow,drink potion, cast spell, etc.

This now becomes step back, watch me step forward, shoot bow, draw attack of opportunity. Simple.

During my next round what do I do (remember I'm hasted)? Full attack, then ready my 5' step into your square.

What ever happened to the old 2ed Combat and Tactics where stepping out of combat provoked an attack of opportunity? Moving in combat was also controlled by whoever could press the advantage. If you succeeded in your attack, but your opponent did not in theirs you could force them back, and potentially press them. The one being pressed could then be manuvered by the attacker, potentially putting them in a bad position. Really, once melle is engaged in most cases in a do or die scenario, combat is only disengaged by the death of one of the combatants.

I suppose you could use a House Rule to the effect of "if you don't move at all during your turn (including the use your 5' step to adjust during your turn), you may ready (only) a 5' step as a free action triggered (only) if your opponent takes a 5' step." Your gripe is neatly solved. If you don't move and wait for your opponent to "step back" you can "step forward." If you're busy adjusting yourself (i.e., you used your own 5' step or other motion) you cannot react quickly enough when your opponent steps away. Since it requires immobility on the part of the guy "staying with you" during his turn, it may be a fair trade-off.

--The Sigil

 

[noretoc]

Sorry, but you can not use a partial action to ready. Readying an action is a standard action. You can move, than ready an action, just as you can move and perform any other standard action. What may have you confused is the action you ready can only be a partial action.

 

[Xarlen]

...sigh...Negative Zero and Xarlen, maybe you guys and KReynolds can get together and form a mutual lack-of-wit club, or at least argue about nothing together...

My breast, it hath been pierced with rapier wit! I am foreshamed, pained indeed. Ow. Ow.

Sure. I'll gladly sit beside Kreynolds. He's quite clever you know. But, I think the club could Really excell if Hong was our leader.

 

[IceBear]

The five foot move where it aggravates me the most is how someone can step easily out of combat with no ability of his/her opponent doing anything to prevent their action. Example step back shoot bow,drink potion, cast spell, etc. What ever happened to the old 2ed Combat and Tactics where stepping out of combat provoked an attack of opportunity? Moving in combat was also controlled by whoever could press the advantage. If you succeeded in your attack, but your opponent did not in theirs you could force them back, and potentially press them. The one being pressed could then be manuvered by the attacker, potentially putting them in a bad position. Really, once melle is engaged in most cases in a do or die scenario, combat is only disengaged by the death of one of the combatants.

Ah yes, the days of 2nd Edition where if you had a character concept other than melee fighter you were pretty much screwed if someone got within melee range. And then, once melee got started it was "Swing" "Miss" "Swing" "Hit" etc etc.

Wow...exciting.

3E is about choices. Hey, if you want to play an archer it's more viable than it used to be. Wanna be a spellcaster and mix it up in melee? Go for it. Sure, the archer could get his bow sundered or the spellcaster could take one solid hit and get killed, but at least these players have that choice.

This is what the 5-ft step gives the players - choices.

If you don't like that, then that's fine, but myself and many others do. The house rule that Sigil pointed out would work fine and I've seen it suggested before so it seems to be a good one.

Also, as I pointed out earlier, you can ready an attack to follow the archer. If you ready an attack to hit him if he should attack you get a 5ft step with the partial action so it works out. The terrain will eventually hem the archer in so he can no longer step back. And you could just trip or grapple him.

All in all, the 5ft step is easily overcome with some creative thinking.

IceBear

 

[The Sigil]

Sorry, but you can not use a partial action to ready. Readying an action is a standard action. You can move, than ready an action, just as you can move and perform any other standard action. What may have you confused is the action you ready can only be a partial action.

True enough... so I have. Oops.

The point about a hasted character holds, though... use a partial action to attack (once), then use a standard action to ready your move (since IIRC you can trade a partial action for a move or a move-equivalent action).

I'm sure if I'm wrong I'll be told so.

--The Sigil

 

[Uller]

Sorry, but you can not use a partial action to ready. Readying an action is a standard action. You can move, than ready an action, just as you can move and perform any other standard action. What may have you confused is the action you ready can only be a partial action.

Not true. Ready is a standard action. So you can move up to your speed or perform a MEA and ready. A partial action is a standard action minus a move. Therefore, you may use a partial action to ready so long as you don't move(or do a MEA) first.

By your statement, slowed characters and zombies could never Ready.

 

[Gromm]

Not true. Ready is a standard action. So you can move up to your speed or perform a MEA and ready. A partial action is a standard action minus a move. Therefore, you may use a partial action to ready so long as you don't move(or do a MEA) first.

By your statement, slowed characters and zombies could never Ready.

Just to clairify, PHB p134

"Readying an action is a standard action, so you can move as well."

PHB p127

"As a general rule, you can do as much with a partial action as you could with a standard action minus a move."

 

[Uller]

Right. So a hasted character could certainly perform a full attack, ready an attack (I attack him if he fires his bow, moves out of my reach or casts a spell) and when that is triggered, he could take a 5' step and attack(or even partial charge).

The problem with this tactic is that your foe may do something that doesn't trigger your readied action or makes it impossible. Then you just gave up an attack.