The aggravating five foot move.

[Helspar]

There is one rule that is used to soooooo often fly in the face that it aggravates me to no end, both as a GM and a player. It is this "five foot step" rule that can be made by any character free of charge or responsibility. It leads to the invincible archer/crossbowman technique in close quarters. Not to mention the ease of penetrating a defensive line that is not three ranks in depth. Not only that it always leads to action described as "I make a five foot step and attack." Not really my idea of a heroic battle sequence. How often does Conan make a five foot move and attack? No, he leaps like a tiger into the fray. What is everyone else's take on this? Does it pose problems in your game sessions?

 

[Piratecat]

Please feel free to leap like a tiger, as long as you're leaping no more than 5 feet. Your problem there isn't rules-based, it's semantic.

As an original playtester, let me say that if you use AoO's I think the 5' step is essential. Otherwise, you draw AoO's every time you try to maneuver in combat... and you'd seldom get to take a full attack. It makes combat MORE exciting and cinematic, not less.

 

[IceBear]

There is one rule that is used to soooooo often fly in the face that it aggravates me to no end, both as a GM and a player. It is this "five foot step" rule that can be made by any character free of charge or responsibility. It leads to the invincible archer/crossbowman technique in close quarters. Not to mention the ease of penetrating a defensive line that is not three ranks in depth. Not only that it always leads to action described as "I make a five foot step and attack." Not really my idea of a heroic battle sequence. How often does Conan make a five foot move and attack? No, he leaps like a tiger into the fray. What is everyone else's take on this? Does it pose problems in your game sessions?

He uses Spring Attack? Mobility?

Anyway, I've used it. The only time there was a problem was the first time an enemy spellcaster stepped back 5ft and cast a spell - boy, were my players upset.

However, once they learnt that they could do it too, they sure didn't complain when they wanted to mix it up in melee and cast spells.

And, BTW, grappling and readying can help stop those 5ft steps. Got an annoying spellcaster than steps back and casts. Step up and grapple him to the ground. Also, don't forget, that in a dungeon someone who keeps stepping back and casting or shooting will eventually run out of room.

Personally, I found that this makes the game more tactical, but if you don't like wargames maybe this isn't a plus for you.

IceBear

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I find it works very well. As Piratecat points out, it is very difficult to take advantage of a full attack without the 5' rule.

It is also realistic (in the context of a game with no facing). Skilled combatants know how to make minor positional adjustments without suffering severe tactical penalities (AoOs).

The penalty for trying to 5' step through a battle line is that you are opening yourself up to multiple flanked full attacks. If that is not a deterrent than you sufficiently outclass your opponents that it is hardly worth worrying over.

The answer to the invincible archer is to either ready an action, or move behind the intended victim, or use a Trip/Grapple. Since the archer is wielding a non-melee weapon, you do not provoke an AoOs for dancing around him or attempting to grapple.

 

[0-hr]

If an archer steps back and shoots, then you can step forward and do a full attack (part of which should be a sunder). I can easily picture a bowman frantically backing up while a sword wielding barbarian bears down on him. In fact, I like that imagery a lot better than a bowman standing his ground toe-to-toe firing arrows into the face of the swordsman that is beating on him. So the 5ft-step is a Good Thing(tm) in my book!

 

[Greythax]

I find that most of the frustration with the 5' step rule is that people are too often unwilling to give up their full round attack. Everyone wants to kill the bad guy, and no one wants to assist. Next time you are having problems with an archer, ready a trip attack for whenever he starts shooting. He shoots, you trip him, and all he can do is stand up (only crosbows can be used from a prone position). Keep this tactic up and your alies will quickly rip him to shreads while all he can do is fire one arrow a round.

For a caster, a readied action combined with a partial charge will bust any caster almost guarenteed. The 5' rule is just fine, you just have to be clever to nullify it's effect, and not too greedy to resort to just one attack a round.

Greythax

 

[Uller]

How often does Conan make a five foot move and attack? No, he leaps like a tiger into the fray. What is everyone else's take on this? Does it pose problems in your game sessions?

Unfortunately(or fortunately, depending on your POV), D&D is a combat centric RPG. Combat requires explicit rules. I don't expect my players to come up with cinematic descriptions of every move they make, and I need to know the "rules" description of whatever it is they are trying to do so I can resolve it in a fair manner. We generally save the cinematics for after the results are known...

Player: I take a 5' step to the side so I am flanking him with Aelgar and take a full attack with my battle axe!...I hit AC 29...damn 14...and oh critical threat....and crit an AC 21!

DM: You hit twice...one is a crit!

Player: I do 12 on the first hit and 38 on the second.

DM: Okay...Rengrin and Aelgar leap at the Orc captain, swinging their blades. As the combatants circle each other in a frenzy of whirling blades, Rengrin sees an opportunity, slams the orc in his breastplate with his axe, doubling him over in pain. The orc's helmet topples off his head. Rengrin spins around behind the doomed creature, bringing the blade of his axe down on his now exposed skull. Blood and brains explode over the hall and the orc's body collapses in a bloody lifeless heap...His scimitar clatters down the steps.

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

Yeah, I'm down with the 5' step as well. It's a kewl wrinkle in the rules that allows more cool stuff and creativity. Without it, I'm pretty sure combat would devolve into the hit/miss/hit/miss rut it sometimes falls prey to anyway (usually late in the night when people just want to get the dice rolled and go home).

 

[The_lone_gunman]

The 5' step is really essential to combat in 3E, I would suggest you keep it.

If you have problems with the archer, just have someone step up and SUNDER that pretty bow of his. That would guarentee that next time he will be a bit further back .


TLG

 

[Henry]

Speaking as the former player of a halfling Archer (Fighter/Rogue), there is no feeling in the world like having an enemy bear down on you, and then you tumble 20' away and smack him with an arrow. Positional adjustments make combat MORE cinematic to us, not less.

Speaking as a former player of 2nd edition, play often became too bogged down in "is my back turned, can I hit him from here," etc. With the new rules, there is no discrepancy of where we are, what can hit whom, and those pesky players whose characters want to be everywhere at once are naturally curtailed without the DM having to argue every detail.

Speaking as a practicioner of the 5' step, I must say that it makes combat far more maneuverable and fun.