Sneak attack & creature size

[Zerth]

The rule on sneak attacks states, that you must be able to reach a vital spot (striking the target's limbs doesn't count). I was wondering if there was a clarification on this somewhere; I mean how can you exactly know when you are able to reach a vital spot when fighting in melee against an bigger opponent?

By looking at the picture on PHB page 131, I would say myself, that an attacker could sneak attack a creature one size bigger than him, if he isn't using any special means to reach further (jump, fly, trip etc.). Tall/long attacker/defender could also affect ability to reach vital spots.

 

[Petrosian]

the rule of thumb i have seen offered by wotc is you cannot sneak if it is two siuzes or more larger for humanoids. this may be in the FAQ by now.

 

[Christian]

This is one of those areas that is, by necessity, a DM call. There are too many different possible combinations of character sizes, shapes, and situations to make a definitive rule. Some situations are obvious, of course-the halfling rogue who wants to sneak attack a fire giant would be wise to wait until it was sleeping ...

 

[Victim]

Or have a flight spell, or incredible jump check, etc. Slippers of Spider Climbing might allow sneak attacks as well.

 

[mmu1]

Or he could cut the giant's Achilles tendon...

I generally try not to rationalize away class abilities, because it ends up being unfair - it screws over some classes and races, but affects others hardly at all.

If fighters suddenly couldn't do critical hits on very large creatures, because they couldn't possibly reach the vital areas (I hit the Wyrm in the toe, but really hard, so he takes more damage), people would howl.

 

[Zerth]

First of all, thank you for answering. Christian is absolutely right, this is certainly always DM's call. There are so many different creatures with different reaches and anatomies. But I was looking for a quick rule of thumb for humanoid characters and I got my answer.

Or he could cut the giant's Achilles tendon...

I generally try not to rationalize away class abilities, because it ends up being unfair - it screws over some classes and races, but affects others hardly at all.

If fighters suddenly couldn't do critical hits on very large creatures, because they couldn't possibly reach the vital areas (I hit the Wyrm in the toe, but really hard, so he takes more damage), people would howl.

I don't think critical hits and sneak attacks are the same thing. A rogue can deal sneak attack damage without needing to score a critical hit and vice versa. You don't have to be able to reach a vital organ in order to make a critical hit. Critical hit is IMO just a better hit, you can pretty much land it anywhere. But sneak attack must target a vital organ or equivalent location (head, throat, heart...). Achilles tendon is not a VITAL organ, you don't need achilles tendons in order to stay alive (and PHB says no sneak attacks on limbs anyway).

This certainly limits the ability to deal sneak attack damage for some races and classes, but not too much to make it really unbalancing if you ask me. There are many ways to reach the vitals of much bigger foes and some have already been mentioned in this thread. If nothing else, hide/go invisible/feint and use ranged weapons.

But as always, if you don't like some rule, don't use it in your game.

 

[mmu1]

From the PHB (Second Printing) Glossary, p.276

Critical Hit: A hit that strikes a vital area and therefore deals double damage or more.

So, about those fighters getting critical hits on creatures bigger than large...

 

[Zerth]

From the PHB (Second Printing) Glossary, p.276

Critical Hit: A hit that strikes a vital area and therefore deals double damage or more.

So, about those fighters getting critical hits on creatures bigger than large...

Ok, I have only the first edition and found no mention that criticals would have to be targeted at vital areas. If you want to play strictly by the book, I guess no criticals on big baddies without being able to reach their vitals, then. But criticals or not, it would limit every class just the same. Doesn't unbalance the PC classes, just makes big monsters a little harder to kill, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The halfling could pull the trick off easily. Run between fire giant's legs (using Shot on the Run and Tumble) and throw the dagger straight upwards.

Sneak attack, and one ticked-off giant.

 

[Numion]

But criticals or not, it would limit every class just the same. Doesn't unbalance the PC classes, just makes big monsters a little harder to kill, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at all.

Except spellcasters. And spellcasters are already quite powerful in higher levels, or so some people think. I tend not to limit non-spellcasters because of this kind of rationalizing, just because magic can't be rationalized. In a game of pure fantasy rationalizations aren't needed IMO.

A DM should always think twice about limiting the melee types, which are already of limited utility at higher levels.