Rank the D&D 3.5 classes!

[glass]

Does the cleric still have spells? Does it even have that spellprepared?... a summoned elemental doesnt act that round...

Which round? IIRC it takes 3 rounds to fall a quarter mile.

Are the casters guaranteed to have something to help? Of course not. Is that more likely that the Rogue randomly being roped to a fixed object during a fight? Absolutely. EDIT: And even if we pretend that ranks in Use Rope are a get-out-of-gaol-free card in this circumstance, there is no guarantee that the Rogue has them either. Unless it is very generous PB, they can afford maybe ten skills, and Use Rope is probably way down the list.

_
glass.

 

[Beal]

Oh Barbarian 1/Druid 1 is very beastly. But it advances terribly- you're held back on Wild Shape, which is a better source of stat bonuses than Rage, and you only get 1 Rage per day unless you sacrifice more Druid...

Barbarian mostly for 12HP and +10 movement speed. rage is just to help in the boss room.
2 lvl monk for another +10 movement speed, and flurry.
3 lvl druid for sheleighleigh.
The rest is whatever...

 

[James Gasik]

Barbarian mostly for 12HP and +10 movement speed. rage is just to help in the boss room.
2 lvl monk for another +10 movement speed, and flurry.
3 lvl druid for sheleighleigh.
The rest is whatever...

Except that shillelagh takes a turn to cast, you have 3 first level spell slots, and it lasts 3 minutes. So 9 minutes of shillelagh out of your 8 hour adventuring day, that you give up a turn to cast each time, and the rest of the time you have a stick.

 

[Beal]

You still didn't explain how they didn't die from the falling damage. Does the Rogue have a long enough rope? Did they even take Rope Use? There's a lot of skills a Rogue is going to want, and not even they get enough points for them all.

Yes, you can contrive a scenario where any character can wither. Your earlier example of stealing a Wizard's spellbook, for example. But in aggregate, the Cleric has a lot more options in a wider variety of scenarios than a Rogue.

For example, I'll cherry pick a counterexample. The party is facing a pack of ghouls. If they hit you, there is a fortitude save to avoid being paralyzed for several rounds and likely being killed.

The Rogue has a terrible AC, low hit points, and a bad save. The Cleric has a high AC, better hit points, a good save, Turn Undead, Free Action, Remove Paralysis...

I'mnot denying that the cleric is a better frontline dungeoneer. I have a beast of an evil halforc cleric that I run.
1 barbarian
4 fighter (for feats)
Then cleric to max.
Love it. Selfish cleric of gruumsh

But I would bet money a rogue carries and uses rope more than a cleric is ready for a collapsing floor. As for skills.. 8+ int mod? Probably has some ranks in rope..

 

[Beal]

Except that shillelagh takes a turn to cast, you have 3 first level spell slots, and it lasts 3 minutes. So 9 minutes of shillelagh out of your 8 hour adventuring day, that you give up a turn to cast each time, and the rest of the time you have a stick.

Which is lots at level 6...

 

[Beal]

Which is lots at level 6...

The point is, high AC, high saves, high speed, attacks as small, damages as large. Loose a round for cast? Meh. Same with every cast. Good build.

 

[Beal]

Finally, I googled the spelling, I didn't reference the book. Thanks for correction

 

[James Gasik]

I'mnot denying that the cleric is a better frontline dungeoneer. I have a beast of an evil halforc cleric that I run.
1 barbarian
4 fighter (for feats)
Then cleric to max.
Love it. Selfish cleric of gruumsh

But I would bet money a rogue carries and uses rope more than a cleric is ready for a collapsing floor. As for skills.. 8+ int mod? Probably has some ranks in rope..

Uh, yes but do they have enough ranks? Let's take a look. Human Rogue, 14 Int. 44 Skill points at level 1, 11 Skill points a level.

Rogue Skills you want to have high: Bluff (for creating distractions and synergies), Climb, Disable Device, Escape Artist (grappling is terrifying), Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Tumble....hm. Now to choose, do I want Balance, Sense Motive, Swim, Use Magic Device, or Use Rope? Forget Diplomacy or Gather Information. Forgery or Knowledge Local would be nice, but just don't have the points!

And just in case you think a few points in Use Rope is enough:

​

Secure a Grappling Hook​

Securing a grappling hook requires a Use Rope check (DC 10, +2 for every 10 feet of distance the grappling hook is thrown, to a maximum DC of 20 at 50 feet). Failure by 4 or less indicates that the hook fails to catch and falls, allowing you to try again. Failure by 5 or more indicates that the grappling hook initially holds, but comes loose after 1d4 rounds of supporting weight. This check is made secretly, so that you don’t know whether the rope will hold your weight.

A quarter mile of rope, eh?

 

[Beal]

Uh, yes but do they have enough ranks? Let's take a look. Human Rogue, 14 Int. 44 Skill points at level 1, 11 Skill points a level.

Rogue Skills you want to have high: Bluff (for creating distractions and synergies), Climb, Disable Device, Escape Artist (grappling is terrifying), Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Tumble....hm. Now to choose, do I want Balance, Sense Motive, Swim, Use Magic Device, or Use Rope? Forget Diplomacy or Gather Information. Forgery or Knowledge Local would be nice, but just don't have the points!

And just in case you think a few points in Use Rope is enough:

​

Secure a Grappling Hook​

Securing a grappling hook requires a Use Rope check (DC 10, +2 for every 10 feet of distance the grappling hook is thrown, to a maximum DC of 20 at 50 feet). Failure by 4 or less indicates that the hook fails to catch and falls, allowing you to try again. Failure by 5 or more indicates that the grappling hook initially holds, but comes loose after 1d4 rounds of supporting weight. This check is made secretly, so that you don’t know whether the rope will hold your weight.

A quarter mile of rope, eh?

He doesnt need a quarter mile of rope. He needs enough to reach a ledge before falling. Let's say, 50', or whatever.. DC 20 (even 30) would be a fair challenge.
A rogue with intelligence 10 is still going to have 40 ranks+10 per level... probably 8 proficient skills at level one. Why is rope use out of the question? Rope is soooo useful.

 

[James Gasik]

Which is lots at level 6...

Or I could just be a level 6 Barbarian with Power Attack and a Greatsword who can on round one charge a guy and smack him for up to 2d6+23 damage while you're still making your stick a magic weapon for the fight.

Or a level 6 Dwarven Ranger with Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and Two-Weapon Pounce and Power Attack dual wielding Dwarven Waraxes for 2d10+22. Also while you're playing with your stick.

Or a level 6 Druid Wild Shaped into a Fleshraker Dinosaur, with a Fleshraker Dinosaur Animal Companion that both have venomfire thanks to Share Spells, charging with Leaping Pounce to make 4 attacks each, with 6d6 acid damage on each attack. Yeah that took a round to cast, but it's worth it, I think.