D&D 3E/3.5 [PsiHB]What house rules do you use for making Psionic Wild Talents in 3E?

[GuardianLurker]

Re: Re: Re: Hmmmmm. . . .

I agree that a negative 2 penalty is pretty high, but without such a barrier you would have uber characters with 4+ psionic feats and perhaps even more power than a low level psychic character.
<snip>
4 Feats = No Buffer, Takes ability damage instead of stun

Evil, yes . . . .But it prevents abuse of the system.

Hmm, maybe.

However, if we remove the psionic buffer, and give the Wild Talent Mind Blank as a free defense mode, I believe his maximum bonus would be +4, he'd drain his few precious PPs, and take ability damage.

It would keep the distinction between psionic and non-psionic a little clearer cut; in my mind, the big distinction between the two is the amount of training they possess, not their sensitivity to psionics.

The "door" doesn't slowly creak open, but bursts open aften extended tugging.

Another benefit to the "weak defense" method is that it preserves as much of the original system as possible, and requires as little modification as possible. It's also greatly in keeping with a lot of the "psionic" literature, esp. Kurtz's Deryni series, where a character with a surprise "shield" is almost inevitably an untrained/unknown Deryni (or Haldane).

Actually, thinking about it, I'll change my version of "Talented" to allow a character two powers and one defense mode (from a limited list), and make it clear that a wild talent does _not_ possess the psionic buffer at all. This means that almost all psionic characters (or at least the ones that want to live) have two "Wild Talent" feats before they pick up the first normal psionic feat.

Of course, this also means that almost every Wild Talent is going to end up seeking training, because they'll be too vulnerable otherwise. But this is not a bad thing in my mind. Again, the literature is pretty unanimous in its opinion - an untrained psionic character is pretty much the whipping boy of any trained character.

 

[Tome]

<SNIP>
The "door" doesn't slowly creak open, but bursts open aften extended tugging.

I am not so sure of this. A trained Clarsentient can bend his will to see the past or the future, but my vision of a wild talent would be the person who has "visions" and precognitive dreams over which they have no control.

Actually, thinking about it, I'll change my version of "Talented" to allow a character two powers and one defense mode (from a limited list), and make it clear that a wild talent does _not_ possess the psionic buffer at all. This means that almost all psionic characters (or at least the ones that want to live) have two "Wild Talent" feats before they pick up the first normal psionic feat.

A limited list is a drag upon the system, and just prompts people to add to it anyhow. We are talking about 0-level powers after all. None of them would be unbalancing, and it adds flavor to the system.

BTW, how many PP would you propose that a character get with your system? If it is too many then the wild talent will be, as in 2E, more powerful than some full fledged psionic character classes. If it is too few, then the wild talent will be too terrified to use his talent for fear that a mind flayer is around every corner waiting to fillet his cerebellum. Also, there is no disincentive to continue gaining psionic feats. A wild talent under this rule would need to keep on getting feats to boost his strength so that he can hold off progressively stronger psionic attacks.

Again, the literature is pretty unanimous in its opinion - an untrained psionic character is pretty much the whipping boy of any trained character.

Whipping boy, YES . . . Cannon fodder , N0.

I thought that I was being too harsh before by reducing the Buffer too quickly, but I see from your post that more likely than not I am a bit more generous than you would be. With the necessarily limited PP that a wild talent has available, he would only be able to raise a proper defense once or twice. I feel as thought he Buffer is like Inertial Armor for non-psychics. Giving Wild Talents a defense totally dependent upon PP means that you have to give them PP to use it or they are too weak.

Perhaps we can meet half way . . . Wild Talents retain their non-psionic Buffer at –1 point per psionic feat, but all damage dealt to them from psionic attacks deals temporary ability damage.

 

[GuardianLurker]

quote:
Originally posted by GuardianLurker
<SNIP>
The "door" doesn't slowly creak open, but bursts open aften extended tugging.

I am not so sure of this. A trained Clarsentient can bend his will to see the past or the future, but my vision of a wild talent would be the person who has "visions" and precognitive dreams over which they have no control.

That isn't quite what I meant; I was referring more to the sudden "blooming" into psionic status rather than a gradual divergence from the non-psionic status. The distinction is the amount of control and training a "full" psionic has over a "wild talent", not so much the presence or absence of abilties.

Whipping boy, YES . . . Cannon fodder , N0.

I thought that I was being too harsh before by reducing the Buffer too quickly, but I see from your post that more likely than not I am a bit more generous than you would be. With the necessarily limited PP that a wild talent has available, he would only be able to raise a proper defense once or twice. I feel as thought he Buffer is like Inertial Armor for non-psychics. Giving Wild Talents a defense totally dependent upon PP means that you have to give them PP to use it or they are too weak.

I was planning on retaining Inner Strength as the only source of PPs for wild talents. In a psionic combat heavy game, this would mean that the "Wild Talent" character probably has taken Inner Strength multiple times, Talented, and maybe a few other psionic feats. The less emphasis placed on psionic combat, the fewer instances of Inner Strength, and the more of other psionic feats.

But yeah, a low level "Wild Talent" in a psy combat heavy game _would_ be essentially "cannon fodder", and I can see your point.

How about this?
A non-psionic has a +8 psionic buffer. To each of my four "Wild Talent" feats (Inner Strength, Talented, Psychoanalyst, and Rapid Metabolism) we add a line that reads : "Each time this feat is taken as a Wild Talent, a character's non-psionic buffer bonus is reduced by -2, to a minimum of +0."

With this change, a "Wild Talent" character who doesn't develop his psychic potential or psionic powers, will still retain most of his buffer; but as soon as he starts focusing on developing his potential (i.e. gaining PPs) he is rapidly put into the position where he *needs* training to survive. And a character that develops his latent powers will only have (at most) a buffer of +4.

And, of course, all "Wild Talents" take ability damage, not stun, as you propose.

As for the limited list of Powers, the list is basically all those 0-level powers that both psions and psychic warriors have in common. I figured the rest were powers that you needed specialized training for.

 

[Tome]

Agreed

Let me say that We have come to a resolution. . . for what it means out here in cyberspace.


I would most likely add 1 caveat to the talent as written for my campaign which would be that Wild Talents can take any Psionic feat for which they qualify. No matter how many PP they have they cannot take metapsionic or item creation feats until they gain a level in a psionic character class.

 

[GuardianLurker]

Re: Agreed

Let me say that We have come to a resolution. . . for what it means out here in cyberspace.

All right! Now that we've reached a conclusion, let's go evangelize those poor heathens who have yet to be exposed to the One True Way to run psionic Wild Talents.

Or not.

But either way, thanks for bouncing ideas back and forth - it's helped me clarify my thinking (and fix a few problems) with my original ideas.

--
GuardianLurker

Be Seeing You.

 

[Star Gazer]

Not so Fast!

Ok... before you all go off on your merry ways, there's another possibility, not much different in implementation but vastly different in overall 'feel':

Wild Talent [General]
You may take this feat as many times as you have feat slots available. The first time you take this feat, you may select a single 0th level power from the Psion list to use as a spell-like ability 2x/day. For each subsequent Wild Talent feat the character takes, the character level, as if he were a Psychic Warrior, determines the highest level of power he is able to select from the Psion list. Manifester level, if necessary, is determined by character level.

Taking this feat does not reduce the non-psionic buffer, if any. Attack and Defense Modes are never available as a result of taking this feat. Power Points are never gained as a result of this feat, thus a power with a continuous cost is always unavailable to a Wild Talent. With the exception of Meta-Psionic and Psionic Item Creation feats, a character with Wild Talent may take any feat available that does not have a prerequisite Power Point cost or reserve minimum. A character may not 'save' taking a power for a later date. Each time this feat is selected, a power must be selected with it. [Essentially, this means that you cannot have 5 5th level powers and nothing else for having taken this feat 5 times.]

Operational Examples:
Drik, a .5Orc Fighter, has taken this feat 3 times in his carreer.
He has 2 0th level powers and 1 2nd level power, each of which he may use 2x/day.

Grommel, a Human Expert, has taken this feat 5 times in his carreer. He has 3 0th level powers, 1 3rd level power and 1 5th level power, each of which may be used 2x/day.

What does this feat do? It allows the barmaid down the street to have Teleport, if the DM gives up most (usually all) of the Commoner's character level feats for Wild Talent 'chained' feats.

It stays true to the notion of Wild Talents being just that: Wild, without unbalancing them. It never allows Psy-Warriors to 'get ahead' nor does it nullify the necessity of a Psion, yet it allows for a Thief with inexplicable abilities, if the PC is willing to pay the price.

The idea here is that as a feat, a single 0th level power, usable 2x/day as a spell like ability is balanced, and that by the time a character gets his third feat (6th Character Level), a single 2nd level power is also balanced and so on....with an absolute level limit of 6th level Powers for taking this feat six times. The other abilities, especially parts of feat chains, given up for these powers by the character, is considerable.

Is it ever unbalanced? No. A PC who spent 6 feats in a row to achieve mastry of a single 6th level power would be 15th level, magic items, creatable far before 15th level, can give you equivalent abilities for far less price.

If anyone still has a problem with this feat, just tack on this line to the end of it:

"Due to the incredible mental strain placed upon the mind of the untrained Wild Talent, usage of any of his powers will cost him 10xp/power level, with 0th level powers costing 5xp."

Nice, easy control.

My 2bits.