D&D General Horses, phantom steeds or flying carpets... with wizards casting successions of floating disks for fast mass transportation

greg kaye

Explorer
So one wizard sits on a pony, horse, phantom steed, broom of flying, carpet of flying or other moving thing and ritual casts a succession of floating disks. Hopefully, this can be done so that subsequent disk can replace those preceding. Other ritual casters sit on these floating disks and ritual cast more disks. More ritual casters sit further back among this next generation of floating disks... and so on. Anyway, that's the idea.

Of course, things could start small, but how might a party get the best milage, so to speak, out of this kind of thing even from lower levels?

Mules and ponies are great but faster transport can be achieved with horses. In RL a lean riding horse may weigh around 900 lbs. while a pony can weigh under 500 lbs. Floating disk can carry 500 lbs and a board that's, say, 10 foot long could comfortably span two disks. With the right fittings the board could even hold onto the disks to keep things secure. However, for those also with adventuring in mind, a sufficiently wide, 10-foot-long board might be considered an inconvenience. This is where a second-level Artificer might be of use because that infused portable hole could provide convenient space a 10 ft board long with a width up to 6ft and perhaps leave space for, who knows, something like a ballista.

But the main thing needed is a wizard or wizards with the ability to ritual cast the first-level floating disk spell. (Who knows, perhaps that artificer, that one all dressed in protective armour and with their con save proficiency established, has decided on some wizarding as a way to fast-track their spell progression).

With disks ready and board in place, a well-trained horse and trusting horse may be encouraged to mount up. Alternatively, a well-trained pony might be encouraged to mount a single disk. Either way, another board may also be suspended on a different floating disk to allow the portable hole to be opened upon it so as to allow the ballista or other equipment to be brought out as needed and other disks may be summoned for the transport of the party.

So with one horse or pony ready to be transported, another horse or pony is either could either be directed by a party member that can communicate with animals or otherwise be directly ridden. Either way, a wizarding party member needs to be on the mount and able to ritual cast disks which can hopefully replace preceding disks in succession. If needed, the character controlling the mount could gain some familiarity with the ritual and slow down or stop physical movement at times when new disks are ready to be formed.

A 5e riding horse can carry 480 lb., a pony can carry 225 lb. while, oddly, a cut-price mule can carry 420 lb and move just as fast as the pony. A 5e human may "weigh from 125 to 250 pounds" while a 5e gnome may "weigh 40 to 45 pounds".

PHB, Ch. 5: Equipment:
Mounts and Vehicles. For short spans of time (up to an hour), many animals move much faster than humanoids. A mounted character can ride at a gallop for about an hour, covering twice the usual distance for a fast pace. If fresh mounts are available every 8 to 10 miles, characters can cover larger distances at this pace, but this is very rare except in densely populated areas.

Riding horses are described as having a speed of 60 ft while ponies and mules have a speed of 40 ft but maybe this can be taken to assume the "faster" pace mentioned.

So perhaps a horse can ride fast for a while and walk for a bit intermittently while the other horse rest for stints and, hopefully, both horses can cover eight hours of travel in a day. Longstrider, may also be used in non-ritual castings by Artificers, Bards, Druids, Rangers, and Wizards to increase a target’s speed 10 feet for hourly spell durations.

Of course, everything here may get a lot more manageable with progress such as the artificer getting their wizardry up to 5th level so as to permit the acquisition of the phantom steed spell.

Phantom Steed "... uses the statistics for a riding horse, except it has a speed of 100 feet and can travel 10 miles in an hour, or 13 miles at a fast pace." At the easier pace of 10 mph, 88 feet in a six-second round while at 13 miles per hour equates to a speed of 114.4 feet of straight-line travel per round. However, depending on ruling, an average speed even of 11.36.. mph (which would equate to exactly 100 feet per round) but might be interpreted to be too fast for floating disks to keep up.

Floating disk says that: "If you move more than 20 feet away from it, the disk follows you so that it remains within 20 feet of you. It can move across uneven terrain, up or down stairs, slopes and the like, ..." and that "If you move more than 100 feet from the disk (typically because it can’t move around an obstacle to follow you), the spell ends." We might imagine that the spell would facilitate a smooth and consistent catching up with a moving caster but it's still possible to interpret a maximum speed of 80 feet per round or 9.09.. mph.

A small-sized carpet of flying, at 3 ft. x 5 ft., has a carrying capacity of 200 lb. (perhaps good for a human, maybe a couple of elves, or four or more gnomes) and has a convenient speed of 80 feet. This, along with a further contingent of 1st-level wizards, might be capable of rapidly transporting anything up to an army. Well, that's the theory.
 

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aco175

Legend
I'm guessing the question is, how many floating disks can fit within 20ft of you? I was thinking that a 'train' of disks would be hard to go uphill, but the description talks about it just following you.
 

Oofta

Legend
You aren't the first person to think of this idea.

You could certainly create multiple disks, it's a ritual and they last for an hour. A ritual takes 10 minutes to cast, so in theory you could have up to 6 disks floating around you at a time. But then you hit 2 main issues
  1. What happens when you move more than 20 feet away? They follow you so that they remain 20 feet away, does that mean they all try to snap to the same location? Do they just kind of cluster together or do they just ram into each other knocking the cargo off?
  2. What happens when the disk expires? Do you need to reload all 500 pounds of "stuff" onto a new disk?
So let's say your DM rules that #1 isn't a problem. They conga line up or just kind of bunch together in an arc behind you. Might cause some difficulties going down the road if it's the latter because you're taking up a path 18 or so feet wide. The spell isn't particularly clear how the disk follows you and avoids obstacles, other than that it can't go over elevation changes easily.

But #2? I think that's tougher. You'd have to stop every time the spell expires. Of course you could rule that a new disk appears under an existing one, but that doesn't really fit with the "unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within range" text. The space for the new disk is already occupied by the old disk. Unless you change the rule that you just "refresh" the disk, I don't see a way around this issue.

But assume you hand-wave or house rule the issues. Then there are issues with trying to cast a ritual while on a galloping horse. The rules are pretty silent on what the requirements are for rituals, but generally I require a relatively safe and stable environment, I wouldn't allow a ritual cast on the back of a galloping horse. Don't even get me started on trying to convey a an animal on a plank suspended between disks on a plank, although I'm not certain I understand what you're trying to do there.

Phantom steed or flying carpet (that doesn't go more than 10 feet above the ground) is more practical for our caster's conveyance but I still don't see a way around the 2 issues above.

If you think it's a cool idea/visual, go for it. I'm just explaining why I would (and did in the past) veto the concept.
 

If you have horses, ride them. Getting a horse to float on a translucent disk is a non-starter. Owning horses, I can tell you they can react badly over a plastic bag or a weird shaped stick. They could be trained for it, but that's an expensive custom training.

Now if your horses get killed/eaten/stolen, you may resort to something like this.

Phantom steed provides almost a floating disk worth of carrying capacity (480lb) at 10mph so unless there are a lot of small-ishpeople, just go with that. Casting 4 steeds and getting 20m of riding time per hour is still 10/3=3.3.mph so 10% faster than normal horses.

i could see maybe 2 disks, more seems....awkward and prone to issues. So two phantom steeds and two floating disks is that 3.3mph speed for 8-ish medium creatures or a dozen-ish small ones, assuming you put all of the packs, the caster and the biggest person on the steeds and put smaller people on the disks.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
It comes down to the purpose behind using the disks over conventional transportation. In one campaign, I served as a "transport mage" doing something like this. The region was heavy jungle filled with dinosaurs, making pack animals impossible to use.
But #2? I think that's tougher. You'd have to stop every time the spell expires. Of course you could rule that a new disk appears under an existing one, but that doesn't really fit with the "unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within range" text. The space for the new disk is already occupied by the old disk. Unless you change the rule that you just "refresh" the disk, I don't see a way around this issue.
You only use 5 continuous disks, with someone moving the stuff from the oldest disk to the newest disk. It's not efficient, but as I noted above, doing this is only better under specific circumstances.
 

greg kaye

Explorer
You could certainly create multiple disks, it's a ritual and they last for an hour. A ritual takes 10 minutes to cast, so in theory you could have up to 6 disks floating around you at a time.
Your valuable responses have got me wondering whether 4-5 max would be more manageable. This would spare some time for an hourly ritual cast of phantom steed and give that poor wizard a few minutes for snacks... Managing 2-3 disks would be easy.
...They ... just kind of bunch together in an arc behind you.
This is what got me thinking more about the number of disks in relation to 5e distances.

^
30 25 20 15 10 5 Wizd 5 10 15 20 25 30
30 25 20 15 10 05 05 05 10 15 20 25 30
35 30 25 20 15 10 10 10 15 20 25 30 35
35 30 25 20 20 15 15 15 20 20 25 30 35
40 35 30 25 25 20 20 20 25 25 30 35 40
40 35 35 30 30 25 25 25 30 30 35 35 40
45 40 40 35 35 30 30 30 35 35 40 40 45
50 45 45 40 40 35 35 35 40 40 45 45 50
Presuming the disks would remain in a non-grid-defined arc and wouldn't get jostled up into 15 ft away from the caster positions, disks could simply be created to the left and right in sequence. Disks in the center would be the last to disappear and riders on the disks could just keep moving themselves and their possessions to the outer edges.

However, subsequent wizards could be placed on one or both wings of the arrangement and these wizards could also maintain their own sets of 5-6 disks.

With a wizard on just one wing at a time, an arrangement might look something like this:
^
6 5 c 3 2 1 W 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c 2 1 0 1 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c W 1 0 1 d c 4 5 6

6 5 4 3 2 d d d 2 3 4 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c d 1 0 1 W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
6 5 4 c 2 d d d 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
6 5 4 c 2 1 0 1 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c W 1 0 1 d c 4 5 6

6 5 4 3 2 d d d 2 3 4 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c d 1 0 1 W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
6 5 4 c 2 d d d 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
6 5 4 c 2 1 0 1 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c d 1 0 1 d c 4 5 6

6 5 4 3 2 d d d 2 3 4 5 6

Alternatively, wizards might occasionally position themselves on either wing in something like the following.
^
6 5 c 3 2 1 W 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c 2 1 0 1 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c W 1 0 1 W c 4 5 6

6 5 4 3 2 d d d 2 3 4 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c W 1 0 1 d 1 0 1 W c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c 2 d d d 2 d d d 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c W 1 0 1 d 1 2 1 d 1 0 1 W c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c 2 d d d 2 3 4 3 2 d d d 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c W 1 0 1 W 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 d 1 0 1 W c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c 2 d d d 2 3 4 5 6 5 4 3 2 d d d 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6
6 5 4 c W 1 0 1 d 1 0 1 W 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 d 1 0 1 W c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c 2 d d d 2 d d d 2 3 4 5 6 5 4 3 2 d d d 2 c 4 5 6
6 5 c 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 c 5 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
6 5 4 c d 1 0 1 d 1 2 1 d 1 0 1 d c 4 5 6 1 2 1 d 1 0 1 d c 4 5 6
6 5 4 c 2 d d d 2 3 4 3 2 d d d 2 c 4 5 6 5 4 3 2 d d d 2 c 4 5 6

It's a viable proposition and, despite an exorbitant need for 1st-level wizards or ritual casters with similar abilities, a lot of creatures and materials could be conveyed at the speed of a flying carpet of phantom steed.
 
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One thing we did in a campaign I played was use phantom steeds to pull a siege tower - there were two ritual casters (a wizard and my tomelock) who just sat around casting and keeping the harnesses full.

Just rp-wise, I would never do that if actual horses were an option. It sounds exhausting, even if the rules don't say you get the exhausted condition.
 

Sounds like time for Tenser's Wagon Train.

Seriously, at this point just making a higher level spell that creates a "train" of floating discs or the like seems like less of a hassle.
Just let the spell make bigger discs when upcast. (IIRC ritual casting is always cast at the lowest level.)
 

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