D&D 4E Hasbro, Greyhawk, and 4E speculation

[Maggan]

Well, put it this way. It's not that difficult for me to make $70K/yr as a programmer. My understanding is that it's extremely difficult for anyone in the game industry to make half of that.

Probably. But I would also think it extremely difficult for many other people to pull in $70K/year, let alone half of that. I'm not doing it, and I work at a web design agency.

/M

 

[Kanegrundar]

Well, put it this way. It's not that difficult for me to make $70K/yr as a programmer. My understanding is that it's extremely difficult for anyone in the game industry to make half of that.

70K a year is respectable, but that's still a good chunk of change. There are a lot of people that live very well with less than even half of that. (I know I do.)

Kane

 

[buzzard]

Well, put it this way. It's not that difficult for me to make $70K/yr as a programmer. My understanding is that it's extremely difficult for anyone in the game industry to make half of that.

$70K/year is well above an average salary. Heck, the median family income in the U.S. is below that. You appear to have a rather skewed perspective.

OK, let me look it up.

Median family income for a 4 person family in the U.S. is (according to the census bureau) $65K (the latest numbers which are a few years old -2003, it is probably a bit higher now and may actually have exceeded $70K by looking at the trend). Now depending on the state you live in, this could be substancially higher. A number of states on the east coast have median family incomes well above this.

But then, weren't we talking about D&D? Oh yeah, that was it. I personally think WotC is in pretty good shape, and honestly the Denver cons seem to be doing just fine, with a fair number of youngsters joining LG and other games. I'd have to say that doom and gloom is quite unwarranted.

buzzard

 

[Mercule]

The thing is that even at WotC, their biggest-name game designers don't make what I'd call a respectable income (i.e. at least a bit above the median), or at least didn't when SKR and others were writing about it.

Wow. Just wow.

I honestly cannot believe you would imply what you just implied. That's just plain rude to the professionals who are employed to provide you with entertainment.

Lunch not agree with you? Skip the burgers.

 

[drothgery]

Probably. But I would also think it extremely difficult for many other people to pull in $70K/year, let alone half of that. I'm not doing it, and I work at a web design agency.

I guess I kind of think the leading lights of a healthy industry ought to be at least solidly upper-middle class on their own income from that industry. I think the fact that this is not the case in gaming is one of the reasons why gamers have concerns that the industry is not a healthy one (and never has been).

YMMV.

 

[drothgery]

Wow. Just wow.

I honestly cannot believe you would imply what you just implied. That's just plain rude to the professionals who are employed to provide you with entertainment.

Lunch not agree with you? Skip the burgers.

What's disrepectful about claiming that an industry where it's best people make middle-class salaries at best may have problems?

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Saying that game writers are seriously underpaid is a bad thing?

 

[Mercule]

I guess I kind of think the leading lights of a healthy industry ought to be at least solidly upper-middle class on their own income from that industry. I think the fact that this is not the case in gaming is one of the reasons why gamers have concerns that the industry is not a healthy one (and never has been).

So, the $100K "bonus" Keith Baker got for Eberron, and the bonuses I've heard people like Sean (IIRC) being awarded don't qualify?

I've got to ask: Where do you get your salary information on WotC from? Unless you've got a decent source, I'd suspect that your guess on their salaries are more based on your own insecurity in the game industry than the other way around.

Edit: I forgot about Peter Adkison (sp?), who seems to be doing quite fine, financially.

 

[Dr. Harry]

$70K/year is well above an average salary. Heck, the median family income in the U.S. is below that. You appear to have a rather skewed perspective.

OK, let me look it up.

Median family income for a 4 person family in the U.S. is (according to the census bureau) $65K (the latest numbers which are a few years old -2003, it is probably a bit higher now and may actually have exceeded $70K by looking at the trend). Now depending on the state you live in, this could be substancially higher. A number of states on the east coast have median family incomes well above this.

buzzard

I don't know where you got these numbers. According to the US Census Bureau, real median household income for 2004 was $44,389 (see page 10 of the linked report). According to the data presented on page 12 (these refer to the page numbers as the .pdf file sees them), the median income is $40,798 for men and $31,223 for women.

U.S. Census Report: http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf

If you want to go into greater detail, look for the average salaries of specific fields. It is the height of ignorance to say, as drothgary effectively said, "because I have a job in a very well-paying field, everyone else has that as well".

 

[Dr. Harry]

I guess I kind of think the leading lights of a healthy industry ought to be at least solidly upper-middle class on their own income from that industry. I think the fact that this is not the case in gaming is one of the reasons why gamers have concerns that the industry is not a healthy one (and never has been).

YMMV.

It is the percieved arrogance that what it takes for you to consider someone to be "solidly upper middle class", is to have an individual salary equal to almost twice the median salary that I would say is responsible for the reaction that you are seeing to your posts.

 

[Mercule]

What's disrepectful about claiming that an industry where it's best people make middle-class salaries at best may have problems?

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Saying that game writers are seriously underpaid is a bad thing?

No. Saying that their salaries are unrespectable is, though. As your use of salary as a measure shows, people often place considerable pride in their salary. What you say about the "respectability" of their salary has an implication (whether you intended it or not) on what you are saying about the respectability of the people.

To put it differently, the word "underpaid" implies that the people have more value than they are receiving wage for. The words "not respectable salary" carry a connotation of lack of respect for the people, themselves. It's not a direct insult, but your choice of words definitely set the stage for an implied insult. This should not have to be explained.