Converting Creatures from Other Campaign Settings

[freyar]

Haha, I forgot we'd specified those already. Seriously, though, we've been working on this template for 20 months! Wow. We need to remember to fill in the base construct CRs in the CR section of the template, too.

Str 34 sounds fine.

To compromise on the defensive abilities, what if we leave the NA at +8 as you like but boost DR a little more to 10/-? That's pretty substantial, but they are made of stone. I definitely don't want hardness, though.

 

[Cleon]

Haha, I forgot we'd specified those already. Seriously, though, we've been working on this template for 20 months! Wow. We need to remember to fill in the base construct CRs in the CR section of the template, too.

I'd better add the Wooden Jugger's CR to the Guardian Juggernaut Template before I forget then.

By the way, I notice that problem with the Tables unformatting themselves when a post is edited appears to have been fixed.

Str 34 sounds fine.

Updating Stone Juggernaut Working Draft.

To compromise on the defensive abilities, what if we leave the NA at +8 as you like but boost DR a little more to 10/-?

I'd prefer the amount of damage protection be the same number of points as an equivalent Animated Object. Stone and masonry has hardness 8. They'd be equivalent to crude iron if they had 10 points.

I definitely don't want hardness, though.

Hold on a moment. If they have DR X/— doesn't that mean that an adamantine weapon can't penetrate its damage reduction? That doesn't seem right.

Actually, re-reading the SRD it says adamantine weapons bypass hardness "when sundering weapons or attacking objects". There's nothing about bypassing hardness when attacking creatures like an Animated Object.

Perhaps we should change the DR so the juggernauts have X/adamantine instead of X/—? I'd consider making the wooden and wicker models X/mithral or adamantine to represent them being far "softer" than the 15 hardness of a mithral weapon.

 

[freyar]

DR 8 is ok, but it's just a bit of a weird number for DR.

This discussion is a good reminder of why creatures are not supposed to have hardness but DR --- animated objects are a mistake. In any case, I don't mind going with DR 8/adamantine for stone and DR X/adamantine or mithral for the others.

 

[Cleon]

DR 8 is ok, but it's just a bit of a weird number for DR.

This discussion is a good reminder of why creatures are not supposed to have hardness but DR --- animated objects are a mistake. In any case, I don't mind going with DR 8/adamantine for stone and DR X/adamantine or mithral for the others.

I think it's more a reminder of why they should have given objects damage resistance based on their hardness rather than using two different mechanism.

If, say, wooden objects had something like "Damage Resistance 5/hardness over 5 subtracts", so a hardness 10 steel weapon ignores their hardness while they have DR 2 against a hardness 8 stone weapon it would seem much more "sensible".

Anyhow, that's a bit academic - unless you want to give our wooden juggernauts special DR rules of course!

Hmm… that's not so bad an idea…

Special Qualities: DR 5/special

Damage Reduction (Ex): If a wooden juggernaut is damaged by a weapon with a hardness over 10, its damage reduction is reduced by 1 point for every point the attacking weapon's hardness exceeds 10.

Or we could go the simple option:

Damage Reduction (Ex): A wooden juggernaut can be damaged normally by any weapon with a hardness of 15 or higher.

We could even stagger it, so it requires, say hardness 12 to ignore a wicker juggernaut's DR, hardness 15 for wood and hardness 18 for stone.

 

[freyar]

No, let's stick to the usual adamantine/mithral like we were talking about before!

CR 6? I could maybe see CR 7 --- their attacks and defenses are reasonably comparable to a flesh golem, but I think Immunity to Magic boosts the golem a bit.

 

[Cleon]

No, let's stick to the usual adamantine/mithral like we were talking about before!

Spoilsport.

So you'd rather stick to DR 8/adamantine for the stone and 5/adamantine or silver for the wooden and winged?

I guess I could go along with that, if only so we can get somewhere with this conversion!

CR 6? I could maybe see CR 7 --- their attacks and defenses are reasonably comparable to a flesh golem, but I think Immunity to Magic boosts the golem a bit.

I think I might go for CR 7. They've got a greater Reach and higher Strength than a Flesh Golem which ought to synergy well with being piloted by an martial character.

Besides, if we make them CR 7 we can make the winged variety CR 6 and fit it in-between.

 

[freyar]

It was adamantine or mithral for wooden and winged (not silver), right?

CR 7 sounds fine.

Are we ready to "de-red" the main combat text and start replacing "wooden" with "stone" before fixing the Construction section?

 

[Cleon]

It was adamantine or mithral for wooden and winged (not silver), right?

Hng…

I'm now thinking it'd be better to just stick to the DR X/— they have currently or go back to hardness X.

Giving it a special material vulnerability sounds too much like it's particularly vulnerable to those metals, like a werewolf can only be harmed by silver, which is not the impression I was aiming for.

CR 7 sounds fine.

Are we ready to "de-red" the main combat text and start replacing "wooden" with "stone" before fixing the Construction section?

At least that's something we can agree on!

Updating Stone Juggernaut Working Draft.

 

[Cleon]

Updating Stone Juggernaut Working Draft.

During the above update I changed all the woods to stones but didn't de-redded it, since there's still some work to be done.

 

[abe ray]

has anyone considered doing the viper tree if it hasn't been done already?