Bonded mark (new spell/item/tradition)

[Kahuna Burger]

Our goblin/faux-halfing takes 10 on his Disguise check, and can generally walk around town without much to worry about.

honestly, I would consider that a massive abuse of the rules. It's one thing for a human to be in disguise as an elf or vice versa, a gnoll isn't going to be disguised as anything else by any but magical means, and goblin to halfling would be pretty sketchy to me as a DM as well. But thats just me.

Also as a DM, said goblin could "walk around town" but that would be it. Any direct interection would provoke a spot check.

If I wanted to play a member of a traditionally evil race, disguise would not be an attractive character option to me. I would want to either coordinate with another player to have a respectable buddy, or want some sort of traveling papers to show that I had been vouched for by a respected organization. I wouldn't expect either to give me a free pass from character reactions - I'm looking for options to stop characters from being locked up 'on spec'.

 

[Patlin]

I like this proposal, with a minor caveat. It does presupose that the "evil humanoids" are otherwise kill-on-sight in more civilized surroundings, which I'm not entirely happy with. Is this true everywhere in EN World? Is there anywhere where, for example, a Goblin merchant could trade goods with a human counterpart without need of special papers?

Maybe Orussus is such a place, and therefore the Red Dragon Inn wouldn't require a Bonded Mark. Perhaps a Bonded Mark is required in Earling and/or Lathirn (excuse any misspellings, please) because those cities are less tolerant. It occurs to me, however, that Earling would probably welcome such humanoids, at least in its gladiator pits.

It's even possible some areas would require other races to get such marks in their territories. Some Dwarven communities may be concerned with generaly Chaotic races, and require marks from Elves, among others.

I'd recomend we make this proposal a bit more detailed, in order to show cultural differences in different areas of EN World. I noted Bronts discussion on how the RDI would react to a gnoll, and think that might be better for Orussus itself, as the starting city.

 

[Someone]

Why limit the mark to "usually evil" humanoids? such marks could be useful for trading, banking, identifying members of groups like knightly orders or members of militia, armies, guilds or schools, or even decoration.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Why limit the mark to "usually evil" humanoids? such marks could be useful for trading, banking, identifying members of groups like knightly orders or members of militia, armies, guilds or schools, or even decoration.

I think I left the possibility of alternate uses open in the orriginal proposal, but it would pretty much always indicate an affiliation. And since a new spell must be created and learned by a wizard to imprint any new design (clerics and druids have no choice in what mark they create) it seems likely that such use would be restricted to those with a strong need to verify membership. Decorative purposes could be served by less restrictive spells. Banking would be interesting, though again the bank wuld have to come up with a new spell for each increment they wished to distribute bonded chits for. (trading wouldn't work due to the bonded nature of the spell - no one else can use bonded mark designed for you.)

 

[LogicsFate]

The spell and item parts of this look good, but I think the starting it as a tradition is keeping this from being approved, those poor monsters have enough against them already, and yes it might make sense for the guards to attack them on sight, what if the just come in peacefully?

 

[Knight Otu]

Let's "mechanize" it first, if you don't mind.
The italic sections where added by me, due to an idea I have used in an adventure, independant of this proposal.
Bonded Mark of ______
Universal
Level: Clr 2, Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Targets: Person and object touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless, object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)

This spell creates a Bonded Mark (see below) from the touched object, bonded to the touched person, who must state his or her name as the spell is cast. The typical use of the spell creates a Bonded Mark that shows a glowing symbol when the owner speaks his name.
The symbol that appears depends on the variant of the spell used. Some Bonded Marks, especially those created by arcane casters, might use different visual effects.
A less common use, and one that is not widely known, is the creation of marks not only bonded to an individual, but to others of its kind, created by the same spell. Sometimes called Guild Marks, these marks also react when their rightful owners are holding them together.
Clerics and druids only learn the spell appropriate to their deity, tradition or philosophy, and the mark shows the holy symbol of that faith.
Sorcerers and wizards may learn different versions of the spell (each counting as a normal spell) for different marks.
Creating a new mark, or counterfeiting a Bonded Mark requires a spellcaster to dedicate time money and XP as if researching a new second level spell (or half that amount if he already has learned a different Bonded Mark spell).
Material Component: 10 gp worth of material sacred to the faith, or of particular meaning to the caster, such as herbs, woods or gems. The Guild Mark version requires another 30 gp worth of those materials.

Bonded Mark: A bonded mark is an object the size of a large coin enchanted with one version of the Bonded Mark spell. When the person the mark was created for holds it in his hand and speaks his name, a lightly glowing symbol apears on the surface of the mark. In the hand of any other person, it has no magical abilities. Some Bonded Marks have been known to have other visual effects.
A main purpose is to provide 'traveling papers' for members of traditionally evil races who have shown themselves worthy of being trusted in the civilized lands. The symbol that appears indicates which organisation or government has vouched for the individual, and this may in some cases effect just how much they are trusted.
A variation of the item called a Guild Mark also reacts when their owners hold the marks together. While often used for sinister purposes, clerics of good faiths have been known to use it to good effect when persecuted.
Counterfeiting a bonded mark is not only difficult (see spell description) but is a civil crime in all jurisdictions and a personal afront to the organization whose mark was copied.
Faint divivnation and either transmutation or illusion; CL 3rd; Bonded Mark; Price 70 gp (Bonded Mark) gp or 100 gp (Guild Mark); Weight -


The one problem I have with the bonded mark being required for "evil humanoids": Monks can't afford them at their normal price, and they'll make quite a dent in the pocket of other characters. At the price of a signet ring (+10/+40 material), they're hardly noticeable... except for monks. While I am a fan of background expenses, I'm not sure if they should be required for those races, especially if it effectively tosses out a class.
Interestingly, the above concern does not apply to races with a level adjustment and/or racial hit dice, since they get starting money according to their ECL...

I'd vote Yes on the spell and item. On the requirement for evil races, I'd like to get some more discussion.

 

[El Jefe]

On the requirement for evil races, I'd like to get some more discussion.

I think we've seen a little of this already, with some characters playing full-blooded orcs. They seem to be at least tolerated in Orussus, and reactions vary in other locations (contrast the reception of Fang in Coventry in Festival of Halina with the one Hulgyr got at Seawel in Wreck Ashore). My take on all that is that I'm not sure there's really a problem there that needs to be solved...individual DMs seem to be solving it very well in their own adventures, and Living EnWorld is developing, geographically, as a patchwork of some places where certain PC's will be forbidden or at least suspect and other places where pretty much any sort of PC is tolerated if not encouraged.

I think the bonded mark is a great in-game feature that gives DMs flexibility to deal with suspect PCs of any sort (I can imagine parts of Rivenblight where a "good" elf would need a bonded mark to prove that they had the "right values" to mingle and trade with drow). DMs are already free to restrict adventures by level and alignment, I don't see why they shoudn't be able to restrict participation by race as well. Does the RDI's "no discrimination" policy extend so far as to ban racist would-be employers? I doubt it does, although I'm sure Joe charges people he doesn't like a premium to post an advertisement. Bonded mark allows a DM to say "No non-standard races...unless the PC of a non-standard race can get bonded by XXX organization".

That does impose a cost on certain PCs, but it's an adventure-specific cost. If you don't want to have to pay for the mark, just wait for a more orc- (or goblin-, or troll-) friendly adventure. We also seem to already have a lot of "horse trading" going on between party members at the start of adventures, of the sort of "I'll put in 100 gp toward the wand, Xenophon will chip in the rest, and then Artamax (who is conveniently penniless) can use it to heal all of us". Well, instead of chipping in to buy a wand for Artamax the Penniless Druid, they can just chip in to buy a bonded mark for Snort the Penniless (but Kind-Hearted!) Hobgoblin. Should someone be unhappy with that, either 1) Snort can sit out that adventure, 2) the character that doesn't want to buy Snort a mark can sit out the adventure, or 3) Snort can hide in the abandoned cabin a half mile from the city gates while the rest of the party Gathers Information in the city of Killallhobgoblins.

I think that leaves evil characters of evil races. I'm not sure the previous exchange I had with Kahuna Burger in this thread resolved that. Since I may not have stated it as clearly as I should have, let me say that I'm considering generating an evil character of an evil race for my own use...mostly change of pace, and also to provide yet more "color" to the game. Now, I know this character would really have to watch his p's and q's, or else he'd wind up on the wrong end of a city guard's halbred in no time flat. As a player, I accept that. I also know that there are some places he won't be able to go, at least not without some deception (even magical deception) and risk, and I'm OK with that, too. But if the character needs a bonded mark just to get to the RDI, then he's screwed. That is, unless there is some organization out there who would be trusted by the city administration to vouch for an evil member of an evil race...and just what would that voucher be good for? "We've checked this guy out and determined that he won't murder anyone in plain sight of the city guard"...what a ringing endorsement that would be!

So, to wrap this up, I don't have a problem with a bonded mark being required for some characters for some adventures, but I do have a problem with them being required just to get in and out of Orussus and to get in and out of the RDI.

 

[Knight Otu]

Very well put, El Jefe. I think that would be a much cleaner solution.

 

[Patlin]

So, to wrap this up, I don't have a problem with a bonded mark being required for some characters for some adventures, but I do have a problem with them being required just to get in and out of Orussus and to get in and out of the RDI.

With the quoted modification, I vote YES.

 

[Manzanita]

El Jefe's logic seems impeccable. It is now a given that we allow PCs to come from traditionally evil races. It is also given that PCs can be evil. It would seem odd to restrict traditionally evil races from producing evil PCs. Given that PCs must show up at the inn to be recruited in general, we must let those PCs go to the inn.

None the less, this leaves a few uncomfortable spots. Individual DMs would then have to figure out how to deal with these unusual adventurers. Perhaps this is no big deal. But also, you have a city which allows evil humanoids to wander the streets with evident freedom. I have a hard time coming to grips with this. It would be OK in a pirate or bandit city, perhaps, but I have a hard time seeing it in a typical DnD city. I think this would make Orussus a seedy and dangerous place to live. A city on the edge of civilization perhaps, although by the map, it is clearly not.

I'm not sure I know where I 'm going with this. I am uncomfortable with it. We opened the gates to non-standard races before we went through the logic of it. Do we all agree that good-aligned orcs, goblins and kobolts are EXTREMELY rare? And that these races are generally considered enemies on sight to core races? If so, what's the justification of having them in Orussus without a bonded mark?