D&D 4E 3rd-Party Publishers' Thoughts on 4E

[Warden]

* waves hand *
I'm not a publisher, but I have an opinion on this!

I think it is a bad idea for any person who is trying to sell a D&D-alternative RPG to spread rumors about 4E's release. I've read posts like these plenty of times on ENWorld, and they always seem pathetic. Especially if the rumor-monger keeps harping about 4E looming on the horizon, in thread after thread.

Tony M

And so I say again: My concern is not with debunking D&D, 3.5, or creating a stir towards any work that we are doing. I'm too much of a D&D fan to do that. The interest in writing the article was to understand the intent behind the rumours and false leaks. The only people that are going to shy away from a game they love are those that don't love it any more or feel like playing something else for a while. One of our goals in Genesis is to understand the industry by looking at other publishers, systems, and developers to learn from their experiences.

With the article releasing today, I can say that I pretty drop any possibility of a 4E anyway, and try to explain my own thoughts as to why they started and why it's not likely that it's going to happen any time soon.

 

[Arnix]

As a 3rd party publisher, we would continue to support 3.5 as long as it remained "profitable" and we could viably playtest rules that we released. I do not want to support an older version, or any version, without proper playtesting and editing.

 

[Roudi]

I wish all the rumor-mongers would stop using ENWorld to sneakily promote their RPGs by spreading fear about 4E. They should spend their time editing their books, or writing new ones. Or something.

Just out of curiosity: what publishers have you noticed using "teh 4E fear!" as a promotional tool?

 

[tonym]

... The interest in writing the article was to understand the intent behind the rumours and false leaks. .

Seems to me its mostly writers of non-d20 RPGs who spread the rumors.
Why? It's their sneaky marketing plan, to poach customers from the companies that produce 3E material.

Be sure to mention that in your article.



Tony M

 

[Rasyr]

* waves hand *
I'm not a publisher, but I have an opinion on this!

Of course you do....

I think it is a bad idea for any person who is trying to sell a D&D-alternative RPG to spread rumors about 4E's release. I've read posts like these plenty of times on ENWorld, and they always seem pathetic. Especially if the rumor-monger keeps harping about 4E looming on the horizon, in thread after thread.

As far as I know, nobody is spreading rumors about 4e. However, a lot of people ARE speculating about it. There is a difference there...

This speculation comes from the fact that 3.5 was released 2 years ahead of its original plan. Many people believe that Hasbro, the company that owns WotC, had a major hand in this decision.

Natural extrapolation would have had 4e coming out in 2010 if 3.5 came out in 2005 (like it was supposed to). The question is, did WotC change from a 5 year cycle to a 3 year cycle, or are they still on a 5 year cycle and was the 2 year cut in cycle a one time thing. If the former, that could mean 4e in 2006, if the latter, it could mean 4e in 2008.

And if you read the posts, you will notice that it is never a company rep that starts the thread. It is always somebody else doing their own wondering. Folks just come along and chime in with their own opinions (not any sort of marketing strategy).

It seems pretty obvious that the rumor-mongers want me (the consumer) to be afraid of 4E. They want me to believe that any money I spend on anything related to 3.5E will be a waste of money. They desperately want me to buy their RPG instead.

I think that you are reading WAY too much into some posts. Any company that posts about 4E does so because THEY are concerned. What changes will be made? Will it still be OGL? Will the d20 STL still be allowed? All very valid questions that a company has to think about when they are using those licenses.

They desperately want me to buy their RPG instead.

Is that "desperately" defined as the actual dictionary definition? Or the totally "unrelated to reality" definition that Dancey is using over in the General forum in discussing rules-lite games?

Seriously though, I really doubt that anybody is trying to "scare" you into purchasing their products. That would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, as it would not turn you into a repeat customer, which is what companies would prefer to do.

I wish all the rumor-mongers would stop using ENWorld to sneakily promote their RPGs by spreading fear about 4E. They should spend their time editing their books, or writing new ones. Or something.

What rumor-mongers? I don't think that I have seen any companies spreading rumors. And neither have I seen ANY company saying the equivalent of "Beware! 4e is coming, buy my products!".

Seems to me its mostly writers of non-d20 RPGs who spread the rumors. Why? It's their sneaky marketing plan, to poach customers from the companies that produce 3E material.

Oh this is hilarious! First off, I think you attribute too much to the folks who post on the 4E threads. Secondly, seeing as I am one of the VERY few non-d20 people who do hang out on these forums, I can tell you for a fact that I have never used any sort of sneaky marketing tactic, ever. I happen to be too blunt and to the point for something along those lines.

Having said that, I will admit that I DO have concerns about 4E, and that I think that IF it does come out soon, that it would be a "BAD THING", not just for D&D/d20, but for the entire rpg industry. My personal concern is that it will come out soon though. And I am not the only one worried about. Quite a few d20 publishers are also worried/concerned about.

For example, several months ago, there was one of those 4E threads, and in it, Mike Mearls (who has since gone on to work for WotC) said that he expected 4E "within a year or two" because of all the hiring that WotC had started doing. Green Ronin and Phil Reed of Ronin Arts, and a number of other d20 publishers have also expressed concerns that 4E will be released soon (and always the opinion is that it would be too soon). In this very thread, Mongoose_Matt implies that he thinks it may be released within a year or two (though it is hard to tell if he was joking or not).

And noplace in any of these posts by these people did I ever see anything that even hints of any sort of marketing plan or anything that implied that they were trying to scare anybody into buying their products.

Just take the posts for what they actually were, people expressing their concerns over something that they think is going to happen, and is going to happen too soon.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, the folks in charge of EN World have a nice, friendly relationship with WotC, and they're trying to help E.N. Publishing prepare for the next major release.

In unrelated news, I'm pulling out all my old hand-written house rules from 2nd edition, and typing them up. You never know when they might be useful.

 

[BonesMcCoy]

For example, several months ago, there was one of those 4E threads, and in it, Mike Mearls (who has since gone on to work for WotC) said that he expected 4E "within a year or two" because of all the hiring that WotC had started doing.

Besides Mearls, who else did they recently hire? Perhaps by examining the previous work of these recent hires we could speculate more accurately what changes 4E might make.

 

[tonym]

Uh oh. One of those brainy RPG writers who argues a lot on messageboards has replied to my post to discredit it down to the bloody bone. What could Rasyr’s motive be?

The following quotes are from the thread called “Interesting Ryan Dancy comment on lite RPGs“--an interesting thread on page 1 of ENWorld right now. The thread, by the way, is NOT about 4E.

Interesting side note: A few months ago, in one of the many 4e threads, Mr. Mearls stated that he believed that 4e would be coming in a year or two.

Then later, in a different post in the same thread (which, again, I remind you, is NOT about 4E)...

Just as a side note - being more miniatures oriented is one of "predictions" that several people (including myself) have made regarding 4e if/when it comes....

Okay, but so what. Those quotes only indicate something if Rasyr discusses his Harp RPG a lot on ENWorld. So, does he discuss Harp a lot on ENWorld?

The following quote is from the same thread as above...

Please note that *I* did not bring HARP into this discussion.

Seems like Rasyr is surprised he hasn’t mentioned Harp in the thread yet.

Anyhow, I'm done. Decide for yourself if I'm right or wrong regarding my earlier post. I'm not going to debate a professional writer unless we're face-to-face, where I can yell and throw things whenever he expertly twists my words around.

Later,
Tony M

 

[MongooseMatt]

Besides Mearls, who else did they recently hire? Perhaps by examining the previous work of these recent hires we could speculate more accurately what changes 4E might make.

Well, closing content for a start. . .

 

[Melan]

Could be. Although it is possible that 3rd party publishers could release more-or-less 4e-compatible supplements using the available open game content. This would be very hard to police... although, of course, the "compatible with Dungeons & Dragons" label would be lost as a branding tool. I guess the print market would mostly collapse (but hasn't it already? ) and the remaining publishers would go PDF.