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What is your thoughts on multiclassing?

DM-Rocco

Explorer
What is your thoughts on multiclassing?

Do you think it is worth the 1-4 feats you will spend on it?

Do you think that the power swap feats are worth it or should they be part of the multiclassing experience without having to spend 3 extra feats for it?

Other opinions on other concerns are wlecome too :)
 

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pawsplay

Hero
My thoughts on multiclassing are of a magnitude greater than the authors' thoughts on multiclassing. Those are my thoughts on multiclassing.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
I think that the 4Ed take on multiclassing is a fine supplement to the 3Ed take on multiclassing, and would make a great feat-driven addition to a 3Ed game.

As a replacement for 3Ed multiclassing, I think its pretty lame. It may fit mechanically with the rest of the 4Ed system, but I really don't like the flavor in comparison to what preceded it.
 


DM-Rocco

Explorer
I think that the 4Ed take on multiclassing is a fine supplement to the 3Ed take on multiclassing, and would make a great feat-driven addition to a 3Ed game.

As a replacement for 3Ed multiclassing, I think its pretty lame. It may fit mechanically with the rest of the 4Ed system, but I really don't like the flavor in comparison to what preceded it.

I do like it in the sense that you don't lose anything from your base class by multiclassing (like BAB or spell levels) but I dislike that the only benefit is that you swap a power with one you currently have.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
I personally think they are weak, but maybe that is why i write my own magazine and not one for Dragon :)

I think the option is somewhat weak, but you give up power for versatility - which is the whole point. Further you can do it from moment one, something 3e/3.5 had a lot of trouble with.
 

El Mahdi

Muad'Dib of the Anauroch
Personally, I prefer the 4E concept to the 3E concept. I'm basically houseruling that in my 3E games. I don't allow wholesale multi-classing anymore. The abilities and skills that a character has, from there initial class, to me reflects the years of training, study, or experience they have aquired prior to becoming 1st level (where 1st level denotes a Hero with abilities over and above the common man, ...or humanoid;)). I use Feats to purchase special abilities of other classes.

This doesn't mean that the 3E model isn't right, it just doesn't work for me. For example, in aircraft maintenance in the Air Force, everyone has a specialty (AFSC - Air Force Specialty Code) - or "class". Many times a unit may find itself short of certain specialties. In this case we aleviate the shortage by cross utilization training (or CUT, cut-training). We make a list of individual tasks that need to be qualified on, but not every single task that makes up another career field. Then you learn and have someone sign off on those tasks. Being signed off on them does not make you completely qualified in another specialty. But, it makes you an effective supplement to another specialty. Now you can completely learn an entirely seperate specialty but it is considerably more involved (taking a correspondence course that's basically the equivalent of a technical school, plus on the job training and task-by-task qualifications on a large number of individual tasks). Based on your personal motivation, it could take a few months to a year or more (also based on the complexity of the specialty). To me, this concept applies to D&D classes also.

A Fighter learns the martial arts (martial arts is not just oriental hand-to-hand fighting, but that's another thread), a Wizard learns how to manipulate magic, a Cleric learns how to commune with there God, etc., etc. The collective talents and abilities of a class are what makes them what they are. These things are not learned over night. They can take years to learn, sometimes even from the birth of the character. To me, this means that a Fighter can't just hang out with the Wizard while on the adventuring trail for a few months and suddenly start casting magic missiles. Likewise, a Wizard can't hang out with the Fighter for a few months and suddenly be a completely proficient warrior. But, they can pick up a few things here and there. For me, purchasing these abilities with Feats best models this and makes the most sense.

However, to throw a wrench in the works, I think it should be harder for some classes to learn abilities of some other classes. For example, using 3E classes, it would be easier for a Wizard to learn the abilities of a Sorcerer than for a Fighter to learn the abilities of a Wizard or Sorcerer. It would probably be easier for a Cleric to learn the abilities of a Wizard or Sorcerer than a Fighter would, but not as easy as for a Wizard learning a Sorcerers abilities. To use the Air Force analogy again, we'll use three different aircraft maintenance specialties: Instruments and Flight Control (Instruments for short), Com-Nav (Communication/Navigation), and APG (Airframe Powerplant General - or Crew Chiefs). Instruments is an Avionics specialty that works Instrumentation systems, Navigation systems and Flight control systems (auto-pilot, stability systems, etc.). Com-Nav is an Avionics specialty that works Radios, Interphones, Radar and Radar Navigation systems. APG is an aircraft specialty that works general airframe (structural) and power plant (engines) aspects of the aircraft. It would be relatively easy for an Instruments specialist to cross-train (or multi-class) into Com-Nav. It would be much harder for them to cross-train into APG, and vice-versa. Instruments and Com-Nav could both be considered Arcane (Avionics) and call them Sorcerer and Wizard respectively. We could call APG, Fighters, and there general area of expertise Martial.

I think I'm going to do this in my 3E games the following way:

  • Categorize classes by general area of expertise (Martial, Arcane, Divine, etc. - but not as "Power Sources":rant:)
  • Have Feats for proficiency in these general areas of expertise (Martial Training Feat, Arcane Training Feat, Divine Training Feat, etc.). A character of a class is considered to already have the general training feat of their class (i.e.: Fighter already has Martial, Wizard already has Arcane, etc.). These Feats would be the pre-requisite for any other training feats and may even cost two feats.
  • Have a Feat for training on a specific ability of a class (and call it Class Training Feat;)). For each time you take this Feat you learn the ability of another class; a specific class feat, a specific class ability, a spell, etc.
  • Each ability or class specific Feat will also have any other pre-requisite feats that may be required listed in the descriptions under each class (i.e.: Uncanny Dodge might require Lightning Reflexes). The actual members of the specific class are not required to have the prerequisite feats.
So basically, I like the 4E model for multi-classing.:p;):D
 
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Viktyr Gehrig

First Post
I think that the 4Ed take on multiclassing is a fine supplement to the 3Ed take on multiclassing, and would make a great feat-driven addition to a 3Ed game.

As a replacement for 3Ed multiclassing, I think its pretty lame. It may fit mechanically with the rest of the 4Ed system, but I really don't like the flavor in comparison to what preceded it.

This is fairly close to my opinion. I would greatly prefer a multiclassing system that is closer to 3.5 and the way intiator classes interacted in Book of Nine Swords than the 4th Edition system. Using the power swap feats as a means of taking powers from a different class without multiclassing... now that would be an idea.

You simply give up far too much-- in flavor as well as power-- to be multiclassed in the new edition.
 

UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
This is fairly close to my opinion. I would greatly prefer a multiclassing system that is closer to 3.5 and the way intiator classes interacted in Book of Nine Swords than the 4th Edition system. Using the power swap feats as a means of taking powers from a different class without multiclassing... now that would be an idea.

You simply give up far too much-- in flavor as well as power-- to be multiclassed in the new edition.
To multiclass in 4e you give up nothing other than feats. I simply do not understand the point you are trying to make. In 3rd edition you had to be very careful about what you took and at what level or you finished up with a poor BAB or saves.
Now I probably would have prefered a Stawwars SAGA style of multiclassing I do think, that 4e multiclassing is pretty good.
 

I love multi classing so far....

My first character was a Taclord who paragon multi into paliden...I took Str atts that on hits didd cool effecs...

palidens judgment...Turn the tide...One heart one mind...whirlewind smite... Infact I kept Palidens judment through 27th level...

The warlord is already a leader with some defender qualites...taking paliden allowed me to sure up the character...
 

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