D&D 4E What do people think of Shadowrun 4e?

[Jürgen Hubert]

Keep in mind that I haven't looked at SR 4e... but in every other version of the game...

Shadowrun had this lovely little mechanic where if you rolled more 1s than successes, you botched. White Wolf did the same thing. Anyways, the odds of rolling more successes than 1s with a high pool of dice is ridiculously hard... at least for me. Nothing like being a Phys-Ad with sick combat stats... and getting tooled by some generic gangers because the mechanics hose me for being a badass.

That was only the case if your target number was six or higher.

Anyway, that's gone now. Your target number is always 5. If half or more of your dice come up with 1s, you get a "glitch" - if you still roll enough successes to succeed, you do so, but something amusing happens. If you roll no successes at these occasions, you have a critical glitch, and something Very Bad happens.

And the higher your dice pool, the less likely is this obviously going to happen.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Wow. I wasn't going to pick up the new edition because of the horrid game mechanics and bok layout from the past two editions, but now I just might. I've always loved the setting, but the game mechanics needed to be streamlined badly.

Mechanics are straightforward stat+skill+/-modifiers in d6s vs. target number 5. Edge (the stat that replaces Karma Pool) adds extra dice *AND* allows you to re-roll 6s to get extra successes.

One question, what have they done for decking? The previous editions rules made it annoyingly slow. You couldn't effectively have a decker overseeing your run in a lot of cases because it slowed the game down. Any improvement in this area?

yeah, they've assumed that ~75% of the internet is wireless and that even systems that aren't will probably be accessible through a wireless access point. Your deck has been replaced with a Commlink (think a Treo650 on steroids). Most gear can communicate through skinlink (induction connection using the wearer as the databus) or wirelessly (like via bluetooth and/or wifi) so you can get by with less cyber.

Secure areas will have limited wifi access using jammers, shielding, and low-power communication gear so you'll have to have proximity (aka "breaking in physically") to manipulate anything. You don't have to be full VR to do "light" decking; you can use heads-up displays and other sensory overlays (referred to as "Augmented reality") to interface with the matrix.

Hacking is a lot better done. You can finesse a username & password over several hours that you can hand off to someone else (great for NPC hackers) or your can try break in over a few combat rounds but with a greater chance of setting off alarms. Once you're in a system you would either do a datasearch to find what you're after and copy/edit it or you would scan the network for devices to take control of.

As long as you are issuing commands appropriate to your access level, things are hunky-dory (no more supressing security alerts). Once you start breaking the law (e.g. controlling elevators as a secretary) the system will begin running diagnostics to try and identify you while your stealth software tries to make you blend into the background.

Deckers and riggers are pretty similar these days. Anyone can use VR and Command programs to jump into devices or run them via "captain's chair" mode. The VCR has become an advanced tactile response unit (0.5 essence) that gives riggers +2 bonus dice. This is good since it doubles up the utility without much cost to skills. Expect many non-riggers to have a micro (golf-ball sized) drone just to do a little short-range scouting.

All in all, the fundamental mechanics are about as easy/difficult to learn as d20. The complexities of the matrix & magic are about equal to clerical/divine/memorized/spontaneous casting, with the combat modifiers about even.

 

[IcyCool]

Keep in mind that I haven't looked at SR 4e... but in every other version of the game...

Shadowrun had this lovely little mechanic where if you rolled more 1s than successes, you botched. White Wolf did the same thing. Anyways, the odds of rolling more successes than 1s with a high pool of dice is ridiculously hard... at least for me. Nothing like being a Phys-Ad with sick combat stats... and getting tooled by some generic gangers because the mechanics hose me for being a badass.

Did I mention I *love* the setting itself?

Are you sure you read that right? The Rule of One is for when you roll all ones, not more ones than successes.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

They brought back generalized skills as skill groups, no mor ejus tpistols, I can take firearms, great.

Yep, quite nice, unlike 3e, where they boned non-casters and non-deckers even more: "Here, you have 3 skills to take to use any weapon with a stock. Meanwhile, the caster just needs Sorcery and Conjuring, and that's it! The decker really only needs Computer, and has a ton of bonuses to his Decking Pool anyway. HAH!" At least they break out the skills for everybody now, not just non-casters/non-deckers.

You can always get mote money, but you have a toal of 6 essense period. Sur eif you dont got the money you dont got the money, but you'd have to be crack addled in some cases to take the cyber. I find that unfortunate since I think cyber is a better theme element than bioware is.

It'll probably help when they come out with the non-guns toy book, but Cybertechnology had rules for removing cyberware and putting something else in the Essence hole.

Also the bioware in the case of the synaptic booster is so cheap essence wise physical adpets might be wise to go with it instead of using there magic.

Actually, it works out to be cheaper at start with the adept power, rather than bioware.

For example, Boosted Reflexes-1 (which costs 2 power points) has a cost of at least 15 BP (5 for Adept, which provides the first point of Magic, and 10 for the second point), and you can't start with any other powers without spending more on Magic.

To start with a Synaptic Booster-1, which costs $80k, you have to have AT LEAST spent 16 BP on cash (at $5k/BP). Because it takes off a half-point of Essence, you lose an entire point of Magic, so you have to spend another 10 BP to get up to where you were...so now I've spent 31 BP to have Magic 1 and a +1 to Reaction and Initiative Passes. On the other hand, I'm now free to spend Power Points on other abilities, and can upgrade to Synaptic Booster-2 without any further Magic loss if I don't put any other cyber or bioware in.

Of course, if I went with Boosted Reflexes-1, I have 16 less BP committed, so instead, I can go and buy another point of Magic with that, and get the same amount of other powers as the guy with the bioware. The remaining 6 BP can be used to purchase a knife Weapon Focus, so I can gut spirits (3 BP on cash for a Force 1 focus, and 3 BP to bond it).

Of course, once you're rolling in money and can get a Delta-Grade Synaptic Booster-3, Cybereyes-4 w/the works, Muscle Aug-4, and Muscle Toner-4 for less than 2 points of Essence, you're getting the best of both worlds.

but strength gets virtually no skills linked to it, and it provides very little outside of skills. Yeah base HtH damage is 1/2 str and it lets you know how much you can lift.

Notice how there's not even a rule for Strength providing recoil reduction any more? Pity. My troll could fire his (Cannon Companion custom) LMG nearly all day and never have a recoil penalty.

Brad

 

[Imperialus]

I got the LE #372 here. I must say I like the new system. Takes a bit to break out of the 3rd edition mold since the mechanics are so different. It's almost on the same scale as the shift from AD&D 2nd ed to D&D 3.X and for the most part the changes are welcome. The static target number is a blessing. Back when I played 2nd ed we had a long running campaign that by the time it wrapped up had most of the characters sitting on 3 or 4 hundred karma total the amount of time spent calculating target numbers chewed up a significant amount of play time.

Decking (I still can't call it hacking) seems to work a lot better and the decker is able to work in tandum with his team since his brain is no longer plugged into a wall socket.

Adapts can make effective use of limited cyber or bioware without suffering the same penalties as they did in 3rd. There are some peices of cyber that just fill their roles better than their magic counterparts and make things even nastier when you stack them. I made a social skills adept for my group and he rolls 18 dice for both ettiquite and negotiation. If I hadn't been willing to give up a point of essance I would have rolled a max of 15.

One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the rules from 3rd ed like str bonus's to recoil came from the splatbooks. Shadowrun has always needed it's splatbooks, the world is too big and too complex to fit it into a single volume and all things concidered I think they did an admerable job.

 

[GlassJaw]

I finally got my SR4 book in this week. About time!

While I haven't had much time to go through the rules, my initial impression of the book itself is that it feels cheap. The pages are semi-glossy but feel very thin and fragile. I also don't like the overall font and style - it doesn't feel like a Shadowrun book. The art is fairly hit or miss too - it goes from good to craptacular.