D&D 5E What are the "True Issues" with 5e?

[Brotton Goodfellow]

Any idea how much faster would get to level 5 or 6? Or would you just try to drop treasure at a rate they would go about the same. It start to live gold again?

I was running Barrowmaze and decided tweaking the treasure drops for the sake of pacing was going to be way too much work for my feeble mind. I was flying by the seat of my pants because I didn’t know what the rate of advancement was going to be like. I actually started with a 1:1 ratio and it was too grindy, so bumped it up. The 2:1 ratio had them sitting at level 3 for a lot longer than normal, which for us was a sweet spot of play.

I’ll say this too: the players and characters really earned each level. Delving into the Barrowmaze was no joke, and they handled it like champs.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Since when has WotC ever fully supported more than one thing simultaneously?

Well, if you listen to the, ahem, ardent supporters, 5e fully supports everything, since it's the "big tent" game.

You definitely already know how I feel about these assertions, and not just because 5e has also disappointed you.

 

[Brotton Goodfellow]

So you use gold as XP during the levels where gold actually does matter, but not at the higher levels where all the excess gold comes in? At levels 1-4 PC are still usually saving up for plate mail or some other mundane thing.

Yeah. I was running a megadungeon and wanted to entice the players into risking their characters lives for loot. The goal was to get rich or die trying. I know it’s not the average gameplay style at most tables, but I wanted to capture the feeling and experience of the characters going from nobodies to somebodies. I wanted a little grind.

I also wanted gold to matter. Instead of saving up for a new sword, players were concerned about how they spent long rests, which I turned into 7 days instead of 8 hours. Do they live poorly and some money, but risk catching a disease from a rat they shared a room with? Or do they live wealthy and gain benefits from it at the expense of slower levelling? Better gear and magic items were also only to be found in the dungeon. So worrying about saving up for plate armour wasn’t an issue. And I also gave them plenty of ways to make gold during long rests through the downtime activities mechanics (which are sorely under utilized).

Finally, once they reached level 4, money no longer was an issue. They had lots of it, but I found that keeping track was getting tedious. So I switched to a modified milestone system. This also reflected the parties growing reputation as the local badasses and that at this point they could afford most comforts and normal gear.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah. I was running a megadungeon and wanted to entice the players into risking their characters lives for loot. The goal was to get rich or die trying. I know it’s not the average gameplay style at most tables, but I wanted to capture the feeling and experience of the characters going from nobodies to somebodies. I wanted a little grind.

I also wanted gold to matter. Instead of saving up for a new sword, players were concerned about how they spent long rests, which I turned into 7 days instead of 8 hours. Do they live poorly and some money, but risk catching a disease from a rat they shared a room with? Or do they live wealthy and gain benefits from it at the expense of slower levelling? Better gear and magic items were also only to be found in the dungeon. So worrying about saving up for plate armour wasn’t an issue. And I also gave them plenty of ways to make gold during long rests through the downtime activities mechanics (which are sorely under utilized).

Finally, once they reached level 4, money no longer was an issue. They had lots of it, but I found that keeping track was getting tedious. So I switched to a modified milestone system. This also reflected the parties growing reputation as the local badasses and that at this point they could afford most comforts and normal gear.

Now that you put it that way, it makes a whole lot more sense to me.

 

[Clint_L]

If it were up to me, D&D would have a 30 level standard. 5 level for each tier of play.

1st level would be a true "zero" but you would not be expected to start at level 1. The 1st level 5e PC would be a 5th level PC in that game. 6th level is the beginning hero out of apprenticeship or training.

This gives you more levels to fill out class features for while offering that "zero" play of a wizard with one spell or a fighter with weak equipment.

That's a True Issue with 5e.

No, it really isn’t. There is not widespread demand for any of that.

This thread has truly gone all the way from trying to identify issues for which there is widespread agreement, to folks lobbying for their personal issues with 5e.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Well, if you listen to the, ahem, ardent supporters, 5e fully supports everything, since it's the "big tent" game.

You definitely already know how I feel about these assertions, and not just because 5e has also disappointed you.

But 5E was clearly meant to be a combination of resource management and FKR style improv! Just the way Gygax intended!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

But 5E was clearly meant to be a combination of resource management and FKR style improv! Just the way Gygax intended!

I appreciate that the "laugh" reaction also includes tears, because I feel compelled toward both.

 

[Minigiant]

No, it really isn’t. There is not widespread demand for any of that.

This thread has truly gone all the way from trying to identify issues for which there is widespread agreement, to folks lobbying for their personal issues with 5e.

There IS widespread demand.

The 2 biggest complaints of 5e's power curve is

1) There isn't a enough gameplay of the Zero tier of adventuring

2) The game past the beginning of Paragon/3rd tier of play is unbalanced and requires convoluted premises to remain balanced so few plays there.

The best way to play 5e is to rush through or skip levels 1-2 then drag levels 3-12 as long as possible. Not run a level 7-15 campaign. Or a level -2 through 5 game. Because levels below 1 are non-existent and levels 13+ require hard restraints or previous experiences to run.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Could you still make a Persuasion, or an Intimidate?

Worth noting that, in 5e, players don't just "make" a Persuasion or Intimidate. They describe what they want their PC to do. The DM then decides if a particular check is appropriate (uncertainty in the outcome coupled with a meaningful consequence for failure), given the context of the scene. So, in essence, yes, of course the PC could still try to convince the NPC - or unnerve them, or try countless other things - after failing a Wisdom(Insight) check.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Re: bonuses. One thing I'm seeing more of is smaller dice as bonuses or penalties. Instead of hunting for infinite +1s or using dis/advantage for everything, use 1d6 per bonus or penalty. They cancel each other out so you're not rolling both. That way it's not a fixed number you have to try to remember and stop the game to look up but it's also a small variable instead of a massive swing that is the d20. Rolling 1d20+1d6 is a lot easier to handle at the table than scouring the book for the exact bonus something gives.

I’ve done something similar. I’ve replaced the proficiency bonus with a proficiency die. It starts at a d6 and goes up to a d8 at level 11. The bonuses and penalties increase the size of the die. So at level 5, if you’re flanking with your buddies, you roll a 1d8. Mathematically, it’s the equivalent of a +1, but psychologically, it’s fun to roll a 1d10 b cause you are flanking and blessed.