• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana: What's up next?

I don't know if I agree with that point of view; it is like suggesting that the presence of Mutants and the X-Men somehow cheapens Iron Man and Thor, since the former didn't have to 'do anything' for their powers. Not to mention, just because there are Storm Sorcerers in the book, doesn't mean that there are more than one or two in the whole world, whereas there can be loads of Wizards. PC classes are, in fact, pretty rare - and the 'core four' are much more common than the rest. So the possibility of loads of Sorcerous types doesn't undermine or cheapen the Wizards of the worlds any, since the latter are actually the most common, most likely to be important, and most influential of the various caster types.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

I don't know. Celestials would be terrifying to common folk. There's a reason that the first thing every angel in the bible says upon encountering a human is "don't be afraid."

Of course, the angels described int he bible are terrifying and horrific creatures, not the pretty-human looking dudes from Renaissance art.
But the thing with angels in D&D in every edition except 4e is that they are the ones depicted in Renaissance art. Sure some of the other celestial types are more animal like, modeled after guardian spirits, cherubim, and Gnostic Archons. Even the wrathful Asuras (based more on the Persian Zoroastrianism version) fit into the pretty-looking mold. And D&D celestials are mostly nice guys. The other depiction while suitable for ones personal campaign, goes contradictory to how celestials in the D&D core generally are.
 


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
I don't know if I agree with that point of view; it is like suggesting that the presence of Mutants and the X-Men somehow cheapens Iron Man and Thor, since the former didn't have to 'do anything' for their powers. Not to mention, just because there are Storm Sorcerers in the book, doesn't mean that there are more than one or two in the whole world, whereas there can be loads of Wizards. PC classes are, in fact, pretty rare - and the 'core four' are much more common than the rest. So the possibility of loads of Sorcerous types doesn't undermine or cheapen the Wizards of the worlds any, since the latter are actually the most common, most likely to be important, and most influential of the various caster types.

I don't agree. I think the story of the campaign world gets all out of whack the more ways you introduce spontaneous methods of natural magic infusion in someone. Especially when that manipulation can put you on par with the people who have to work for their money.

If a dragon ancestor can give you spontaneous magic, and weather patterns can give you spontaneous magic, and being really close to a god can give you spontaneous magic, and being connected to the Feywild or Shadowfell can give you spontaneous magic, and the elemental planes can give you four different types of spontaneous magic, and some people manifest magic "just because" (and either can't control their wild magic, or actually can-- for those people who keep wishing for the generic Sorcerer archetype)... then basically you're saying that almost anything in your entire world just gives people magic.

And if that's true... then you wouldn't have it be so rare. You wouldn't have just one or two people who have it, because EVERYTHING in the world is creating these mutants. There would have to be quite a bit of people of each type. There would have to be enough people in the world who manifest these various types of sorcerous spontaneous magics for there to have been an in-world story discovery that distinguished the different phenomenon that granted them their magic in the first place.

If only one or two unique individuals in the entire world found themselves with spontaneous magic (and the PC just happened to be one), then fine. But there would have been no need to know or discover in the game world the type of magical infusion or being that gave them their power in the first place. There wouldn't be a discovery of "dragon ancestor!" or "Big storm!" or "Favoured Soul of a god!"... because they only reason that sort of knowledge would be looked for would be if you were trying to compare and contrast and categorize all these different types of Sorcerers running around. Instead, if only one or two existed, then the 'Sorcerer' would just BE the archetype. Would BE the subclass. "You can spontaneously create and manipulate magic! You are a special type of Wizard, one who doesn't have to study or use a spellbook! Ye gods!"

Now of course obviously everyone cares about Sorcerers and the story behind them in different ways... and the stuff that concerns me is no skin off another DMs nose. I understand that. But to me, it is just something to be cognizant of as people keep making wish lists for more and more things that can create Sorcerers. Because the more that do, pretty soon being a Sorcerer no longer *is* unique. You are one of a handful of people that has a green dragon ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had a brass dragon ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had a blue dragon ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had an efreeti ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had a marid ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Lathander, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Sune, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Ilmater, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Bane, to go along with the handful of people who got magic "just because" and now it flies out of them wildly, so on and so on and so on.

Doesn't really sound like a unique thing to me. So if you're going to have potentially that many people running around like that... not having them be equal in power to the folks who actually have to put the time in seems like a good compromise. But that's just me.
 
Last edited:

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I don't agree. I think the story of the campaign world gets all out of whack the more ways you introduce spontaneous methods of natural magic infusion in someone. Especially when that manipulation can put you on par with the people who have to work for their money.



If a dragon ancestor can give you spontaneous magic, and weather patterns can give you spontaneous magic, and being really close to a god can give you spontaneous magic, and being connected to the Feywild or Shadowfell can give you spontaneous magic, and the elemental planes can give you four different types of spontaneous magic, and some people manifest magic "just because" (and either can't control their wild magic, or actually can-- for those people who keep wishing for the generic Sorcerer archetype)... then basically you're saying that almost anything in your entire world just gives people magic.



And if that's true... then you wouldn't have it be so rare. You wouldn't have just one or two people who have it, because EVERYTHING in the world is creating these mutants. There would have to be quite a bit of people of each type. There would have to be enough people in the world who manifest these various types of sorcerous spontaneous magics for there to have been an in-world story discovery that distinguished the different phenomenon that granted them their magic in the first place.



If only one or two unique individuals in the entire world found themselves with spontaneous magic (and the PC just happened to be one), then fine. But there would have been no need to know or discover in the game world the type of magical infusion or being that gave them their power in the first place. There wouldn't be a discovery of "dragon ancestor!" or "Big storm!" or "Favoured Soul of a god!"... because they only reason that sort of knowledge would be looked for would be if you were trying to compare and contrast and categorize all these different types of Sorcerers running around. Instead, if only one or two existed, then the 'Sorcerer' would just BE the archetype. Would BE the subclass. "You can spontaneously create and manipulate magic! You are a special type of Wizard, one who doesn't have to study or use a spellbook! Ye gods!"



Now of course obviously everyone cares about Sorcerers and the story behind them in different ways... and the stuff that concerns me is no skin off another DMs nose. I understand that. But to me, it is just something to be cognizant of as people keep making wish lists for more and more things that can create Sorcerers. Because the more that do, pretty soon being a Sorcerer no longer *is* unique. You are one of a handful of people that has a green dragon ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had a brass dragon ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had a blue dragon ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had an efreeti ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who had a marid ancestor, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Lathander, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Sune, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Ilmater, to go along with the handful of people who were a Favored of Bane, to go along with the handful of people who got magic "just because" and now it flies out of them wildly, so on and so on and so on.



Doesn't really sound like a unique thing to me. So if you're going to have potentially that many people running around like that... not having them be equal in power to the folks who actually have to put the time in seems like a good compromise. But that's just me.


Who says any given type of Sorcerer is likely to appear in a given campaign? And someplace like FR or Eberron is that whacked out already, yeah.
 

Colder

Explorer
I don't see how asking for magic (warlocks, clerics) is working any harder for magic than just getting lucky, myself. I'm also now looking forward to winning the lottery, since it's been demonstrated that something being possible also means it's inevitable.
 
Last edited:

I don't see how asking for magic (warlocks, clerics) is working any harder for magic than just getting lucky, myself. I'm also now looking forward to winning the lottery, since it's been demonstrated that something being possible also means it's inevitable.

The PHB basically says (this a paraphrase to avoid the wrath of the Cult of Literalism) that not every dude with a sword is a fighter, not every parish priest is a cleric, and not every kid with a Ouija board is a warlock, etc..... that means that somehow the cleric impressed the god enough to go from being a powerless priest to being a magic using cleric, and the warlock is someone who attracted the attention of something dangerous and impressed it enough to not only survive but get powers.

One of the reasons I have long thought the sorcerer should be a con caster is because instead of dying when being exposed to something weird, you get magic. Why? Traditionally we say luck, which is pretty weak (not to mention that between halflings and the lucky trait, we should be drowning in sorcerers). I think hearty constitution makes better sense (or even wisdom enough to not go mad if you absolutely need a mental stat for casting).
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The PHB basically says (this a paraphrase to avoid the wrath of the Cult of Literalism) that not every dude with a sword is a fighter, not every parish priest is a cleric, and not every kid with a Ouija board is a warlock, etc..... that means that somehow the cleric impressed the god enough to go from being a powerless priest to being a magic using cleric, and the warlock is someone who attracted the attention of something dangerous and impressed it enough to not only survive but get powers.

One of the reasons I have long thought the sorcerer should be a con caster is because instead of dying when being exposed to something weird, you get magic. Why? Traditionally we say luck, which is pretty weak (not to mention that between halflings and the lucky trait, we should be drowning in sorcerers). I think hearty constitution makes better sense (or even wisdom enough to not go mad if you absolutely need a mental stat for casting).


Really no reason a Cleric needs to be a priest at all: Backgrounds are separated out, the Fighter can be a priest while the Cleric is a soldier with no particular institutional training...

Charisma is like raw mental force of personality: perfect for Sorcerers in my book.
 

Hathorym

Explorer
Doesn't really sound like a unique thing to me. So if you're going to have potentially that many people running around like that... not having them be equal in power to the folks who actually have to put the time in seems like a good compromise. But that's just me.

As a DM, I have a world, hypothetically speaking, in which only one sorcerer exists, and a player at my table plays that sorcerer. It makes no difference to me as to which sorcerer bloodline he chooses, because he's the only one. I don't know that I would decry his potential choices of options just because there is no one like him in the world. If he were to choose the wild magic, I am, in no way, obligated to also create a dragon sorcerer or storm sorcerer simply due to the presence of the mechanics.

Honestly, when you buy a cookbook, there's no requirement to make every single recipe.
 

Really no reason a Cleric needs to be a priest at all: Backgrounds are separated out, the Fighter can be a priest while the Cleric is a soldier with no particular institutional training...

Charisma is like raw mental force of personality: perfect for Sorcerers in my book.


And yet the priest has still managed to impress the god enough to get magic powers that his buddies the soldiers didn't impress the god enough to get. I am pretty sure that acing the job interview shows more talent than buying the winning lottery ticket.
 

Remove ads

Top