D&D (2024) The Great Nerf to High Level Martials: The New Grapple Rules

[Yaarel]

Per the UA playtest, one cant Grapple a creature that is two or more Sizes larger. If successful, one can Move the Grappled target, dragging it around.

However, if the target is one or more Sizes larger, the Grappler should have the option to Grapple and then be Moved by the target. In other words, the Grappler is holding on tight and riding the unwilling Huge Dinosaur, Dragon, or Bull.

 

[James Gasik]

Somewhat in the context of Unarmed Strike, 5e seems to be allergic to effective Unarmed damage. I never saw a game balance reason for minimizing Unarmed damage. Is it strictly "plot protection", to narratively insist that implemental weapons do more damage than the use of the body as a weapon?

It's the old demon of Niche Protection. If you can be just as good with your meat mittens as a guy with a sword, why even have swords?

 

[Stalker0]

It's the old demon of Niche Protection. If you can be just as good with your meat mittens as a guy with a sword, why even have swords?

It’s also a thematic protection, a punch is just not going to do the damage of a sword. I mean people made weapons for a reason.

 

[James Gasik]

It’s also a thematic protection, a punch is just not going to do the damage of a sword. I mean people made weapons for a reason.

Well, yeah, but this is D&D. That breaks down the minute you open the Monster Manual and see lots of things that outdamage swords, including fists:

So the idea of a punch that somehow does as much if not more damage than a sword isn't crazy in a fantasy world on it's face.

 

[Stalker0]

Well, yeah, but this is D&D. That breaks down the minute you open the Monster Manual and see lots of things that outdamage swords, including fists: View attachment 341728 So the idea of a punch that somehow does as much if not more damage than a sword isn't crazy in a fantasy world on it's face.

Well, yeah, but this is D&D. That breaks down the minute you open the Monster Manual and see lots of things that outdamage swords, including fists: View attachment 341728 So the idea of a punch that somehow does as much if not more damage than a sword isn't crazy in a fantasy world on it's face.

Well, yeah, but this is D&D. That breaks down the minute you open the Monster Manual and see lots of things that outdamage swords, including fists: View attachment 341728 So the idea of a punch that somehow does as much if not more damage than a sword isn't crazy in a fantasy world on it's face.

 

[Vikingkingq]

It's the old demon of Niche Protection. If you can be just as good with your meat mittens as a guy with a sword, why even have swords?

If we’re talking niche protection and unarmed combat, isn’t the point to protect the Monk’s niche as the unarmed martial class? Because those guys do punch harder than swords, but they have other limitations that keep them within power ranges. Whereas if you can play an unarmed fighter or barbarian with the main advantages of a Monk and few of their limitations, you blow past those limits.

(And while we’re at it, Monks got much better as grapplers in the playtests.)

 

[Stalker0]

Well, yeah, but this is D&D. That breaks down the minute you open the Monster Manual and see lots of things that outdamage swords, including fists:
View attachment 341728
So the idea of a punch that somehow does as much if not more damage than a sword isn't crazy in a fantasy world on it's face.

Using a huge creature that has a strength higher than any mortal man isn’t exactly a stellar argument that punches can be equal to weapons

 

[James Gasik]

Using a huge creature that has a strength higher than any mortal man isn’t exactly a stellar argument that punches can be equal to weapons

Well, higher than any non-Barbarian mortal man, at least. But what would you consider a good argument? If I mention the Martial Arts Adept NPC from Monsters of the Multiverse, would you say "well, obviously, that's a Monk"?

A regular Ape only has Str 16 and does a d6 damage with a punch- as much as a short sword. Is that also a bad argument?

All I'm saying is, swords being better than punches is only true for non-Monk PC's. Monsters can do anything they like. The Gladiator can somehow do an extra d8 damage with a sword because reasons, somehow doing more damage than a sword with a sword, lol.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That being limited by spell slots thing very rarely works out in actual play.

Going by your answer in the other thread (5e is garbage) , I highly doubt you do actually play that game at all...

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Until the casters use one of the many spells without a save...

And there are also some martial abilities that push and prone or do something on a hit, without a save. Those tend to be re-usable, as opposed to spells that need limited slots to implement. There is a balance between power-level and use-limitation (at-will vs. spell slots, for one comparison), and the designers seem to be trying to refine that balance.