D&D General Styles of D&D Play

[Imaro]

Lol that's so snarky and for no reason because "surviving monsters while navigating the underdark" is barely survival because combat and finding out where to go are in EVERY campaign while worrying about food, water, and weather aren't.

I wasn't being snarky... I can't have a discussion with someone who hasn't actually read the adventure which is evident if you don't know weather survival is part of Rime.

 

[Hussar]

ToA isn't a survival adventure. OotA deals with scrounging for food and Rime with surviving adverse weather conditions. ToA is more of a hexcrawl/sandbox exploration adventure.

Again, we're just not going to agree here @Imaro. Your definitions and mine are just too different.

 

[hgjertsen]

I wasn't being snarky... I can't have a discussion with someone who hasn't actually read the adventure which is evident if you don't know weather survival is part of Rime.

It isn't that it's not an element of the adventure, it's just that it doesn't matter when you have casters in your party who can easily bypass all sorts of weather conditions and lack of food with low-level spells.

 

[Imaro]

Goodberry is a first level spell

Where are you getting the components or focus from? You're in the underdark as a slave and you have unlimited sprigs of mistletoe?? From where?

 

[Imaro]

It isn't that it's not an element of the adventure, it's just that it doesn't matter when you have casters in your party who can easily bypass all sorts of weather conditions and lack of food with low-level spells.

Have you actually read either adventure?

 

[Imaro]

Again, we're just not going to agree here @Imaro. Your definitions and mine are just too different.

No you haven't read the adventures because they deal with exactly what your definition was.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

This is exactly what I consider an unwieldy workaround.

I mean, "I rejected the power of the god because the gods are evil and uncaring for the struggles of mortals, but oh, I will continue using spells anyway" even sounds weird. "...but hey, I found a new god to pray to! Overnight!" isn't noticeably better either. Even if the class itself was changed into fighter, well, that opens another can of worms: where the hell did cleric learn all the fighter's tricks? Why didn't she use any of them before?!

Well, the way 4e explained it was pretty elegant, IMO. Gods do not "grant" their power, like some kind of continuous, revocable loan. They bestow a mote of their power...permanently. Investiture is a completed transaction. That mote of power can then be nurtured, intensified, grown--but it cannot be recalled. Not anymore, after the gods were (more or less) banned from entering the mortal world. A new ritual can be conducted to take the power back, but you have to actually have the person there, and the deity's agents must perform the ritual themselves (it wouldn't be useful if just any old person could do it.) This is why churches have to be really, really careful about who they grant investiture to! Your "faithful" can betray you and yet still wield the power they were given.

That, incidentally, is the lore reason why Avengers existed. They were the "internal police" of the faithful, those trusted with the duty to hunt down (and, if necessary, kill) those who received Investiture and then later betrayed the faith.

Edit: And, to tie this back to what you were finding trouble with, the 4e explanation would be, "Let's give this divine jerk-donkey a taste of their own medicine." This is quite common with "evil" powers, e.g. a Warlock using their patron's dark powers against them, it should work just as well with divine powers. Or you could take Kreia's attitude from KotOR2, where she hates the Force (seeing it as a willfully cruel, capricious but absentee deity, manipulating lives solely to see more violent wars of "balance" between Light and Dark), but chooses to keep using it in the hope she can learn to kill it, something she freely recognizes may be viewed as hypocritical sophistry.

 

[Hussar]

No you haven't read the adventures because they deal with exactly what your definition was.

I'm done @Imaro. You refuse to acknowledge any definition but your own and refuse to accept any possibility of an alternative interpretation. Please stop responding to me.

 

[CellarHeroes]

It isn't that it's not an element of the adventure, it's just that it doesn't matter when you have casters in your party who can easily bypass all sorts of weather conditions and lack of food with low-level spells.

I have not looked through either of these adventures, so I don't know the severity of survival that may or may not exist in them.

Spell slots are also precious resources that need to be tracked. So, if PCs are easily bypassing the environmental survival bits with spells, it may make the monster encounters somewhat more difficult.

 

[Imaro]

@Hussar I'll take that as a no you haven't read either and leave it at that.