D&D 5E Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?

[Vaalingrade]

People play with magic items.

The game should never have pretended then.

GWM is powered by the fact that employers of it could load up on defensive and offensive magic items and abuse advantage.

And now it's dead.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

SS/CBE... nod... Assassin.... yep, checks out. Maybe not the word 'sniper,' which was the sum & total of my joke, but, you are correct, sir.


There are, yes, some even had the word sniper, but only one had 'sniper' in the name and 'rogue' in the preqs, and it also required elf, so I went with the exploit. Other classes could snipe... and of course, players will always snipe....
Oh, Ranger also had a sniper PP, that popped up on my search...

One day I’ll make my deepwood sniper subclass for the ranger.

And something like a rooftop sniper for the rogue.

My assassin class could use one too, but the subs are all named for monsters and I can’t think of one that attacks from range…

 

[Tony Vargas]

My assassin class could use one too, but the subs are all named for monsters and I can’t think of one that attacks from range…

Manticore?

 

[Neonchameleon]

The game should never have pretended then.

Agreed.

And now it's dead.

The One D&D GWM feat is hardly dead. It's still a top tier melee feat and also provides +1 STR while for PCs without Advantage it's probably stronger even without the STR buff. And there are far more feats that synergise with it.

 

[CreamCloud0]

This isn't surprising. I've long suspected that the 4e folks are really just looking for Magic without calling it out.

Just so long as my fighter’s trained abilities don’t turn off from antimagic or need VSM components you guys can call their abilities whatever you want and insist ‘but what you’re doing is actually magic really no real mundane person could perform those feats’ all day long.

 

[Neonchameleon]

This isn't surprising. I've long suspected that the 4e folks are really just looking for Magic without calling it out.

And I've long known that people are trying to slander 4e fans and want to keep fighters down to what can be done by the nerds playing them.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I've seen stage conjuring called magic. I've seen Messi's football called magic. I've seen programming called magic. None of these are traditionally what is thought of as magic and they all exist in the real world.

What's wanted is a fighter that fits this larger than life world where dragons can fly without magic. It's the heroes of mythology. Not schlubs that run no faster than a first level wizard who dumped all their physical stats other than for two brief intervals per short rest.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm on record as considering the 3e fighter the best-designed class, elegant in it's simplicity,

... I'm reminded that "My plan is elegant in ots symplicity" was the catchphrase of the villains on The Middleman. And no it wasn't due to requiring knowledge of about 58 feats that interacted with each other, and due to the absurd imbalance.

The 3.X fighter was part of 3.X trying and failing to go classless

Just not as bad as the TSR Thief. There was a lot of room between TSR Thief, and just as good as everyone else.

I think that this is one of the few things everyone agrees on.

 

[Scribe]

Just so long as my fighter’s trained abilities don’t turn off from antimagic or need VSM components you guys can call their abilities whatever you want and insist ‘but what you’re doing is actually magic really no real mundane person could perform those feats’ all day long.

I mean this again is what I'm saying. Magic things, just not Magic.

And I've long known that people are trying to slander 4e fans and want to keep fighters down to what can be done by the nerds playing them.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I've seen stage conjuring called magic. I've seen Messi's football called magic. I've seen programming called magic. None of these are traditionally what is thought of as magic and they all exist in the real world.

What's wanted is a fighter that fits this larger than life world where dragons can fly without magic. It's the heroes of mythology. Not schlubs that run no faster than a first level wizard who dumped all their physical stats other than for two brief intervals per short rest.

The Fighter still fits, and Dragons are magical.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I mean this again is what I'm saying. Magic things, just not Magic.

So what you want is for the fighter to be an outright muggle in a universe full of high powered magic? Why? How?

And if you don't want them to be magic by your definition you need to take away their hit points. Fighters can be dropped from orbit and are unlikely to die and will not break a single bone. Fighters are already larger than life in a way that you can define as magic even if "not traditional magic". Why do you want to turn them into helpless chumps, unable to take a blow or be near dragon breath or a fireball without suffering third degree burns because they do not fit the universe? Or are you fine with fighters being magic but "not traditional magic"?

 

[Tony Vargas]

So what you want is for the fighter to be an outright muggle in a universe full of high powered magic? Why?

I should think that was obvious.

How?

By playing any edition of D&D that's really D&D.

And if you don't want them to be magic by your definition you need to take away their hit points.

Well, everyone's hit points. Please. Don't tempt them.

3.X trying and failing to go classless

Like "3.x was a point build system, the only problem was you only got 1 point?"