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Sehanine's Reversal, Death and Dying, and NPCs
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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 4260055" data-attributes="member: 29014"><p>Okay, so one thing we know about 4e is that NPCs insta-die at 0 and don't get to make the death saves that PCs do. I understand that this is to save the GM the effort of tracking it, but it's no trouble for me to track it, so I suspect I'll houserule the dying condition for NPCs as well.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I have a directly-relevant non-hypothetical question (I'm playing Keep on the Shadowfell today with a GM who has all the books, and so I made a PC who worships Sehanine and was thinking of taking Sehanine's Reversal). On a Natural 20, it lets you transfer the condition you just ended with your saving throw 1/encounter (expending your Turn Undead attempt) to an enemy of your choice (no attack necessary--it automatically succeeds thanks to your Nat 20). Initially I scoffed at the feat--okay, so on the off-chance I stopped the 5 poison damage and got very very lucky with a 20, and now I can give that damage to an enemy. But then it hit me--On a Natural 20 against dying, you get to use a healing surge to rejoin the fray--what's more, you get to make lots of those death saves if you are low, many more than you would make against any other condition (since other conditions usually end after one successful save 55% of the time, and death tends to give you ~6 saves each time unless someone intervenes, plenty of chances to roll a 20).</p><p></p><p>So the question: What the heck happens when you use Sehanine's Reversal after making a death save? They should be dying now. But NPCs can't be dying--they just die. My gut instinct is that they die instantly. This seems...very very powerful, particularly against a solo. I can see it now: "Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. My goddess lives on the edge between life and death, dark and light, insanity and genius. When I visit that twilight realm and lie on the brink of death, I gain an epiphany of her power. Perhaps I will perish and be with her forever. But perhaps I shall emerge with a dark secret that will crush your soul. Comrades, heal me not. We will let this be a test of the Goddess's will."</p><p></p><p>Without a good answer to this question (since the feat is essentially garbage otherwise), I went multiclass Star Pact Warlock instead. Perhaps you can tell from the above flavour text <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p><p></p><p>Is this 4e's first save-or-die effect (although it's actually critically save and someone else dies).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 4260055, member: 29014"] Okay, so one thing we know about 4e is that NPCs insta-die at 0 and don't get to make the death saves that PCs do. I understand that this is to save the GM the effort of tracking it, but it's no trouble for me to track it, so I suspect I'll houserule the dying condition for NPCs as well. Anyway, I have a directly-relevant non-hypothetical question (I'm playing Keep on the Shadowfell today with a GM who has all the books, and so I made a PC who worships Sehanine and was thinking of taking Sehanine's Reversal). On a Natural 20, it lets you transfer the condition you just ended with your saving throw 1/encounter (expending your Turn Undead attempt) to an enemy of your choice (no attack necessary--it automatically succeeds thanks to your Nat 20). Initially I scoffed at the feat--okay, so on the off-chance I stopped the 5 poison damage and got very very lucky with a 20, and now I can give that damage to an enemy. But then it hit me--On a Natural 20 against dying, you get to use a healing surge to rejoin the fray--what's more, you get to make lots of those death saves if you are low, many more than you would make against any other condition (since other conditions usually end after one successful save 55% of the time, and death tends to give you ~6 saves each time unless someone intervenes, plenty of chances to roll a 20). So the question: What the heck happens when you use Sehanine's Reversal after making a death save? They should be dying now. But NPCs can't be dying--they just die. My gut instinct is that they die instantly. This seems...very very powerful, particularly against a solo. I can see it now: "Strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. My goddess lives on the edge between life and death, dark and light, insanity and genius. When I visit that twilight realm and lie on the brink of death, I gain an epiphany of her power. Perhaps I will perish and be with her forever. But perhaps I shall emerge with a dark secret that will crush your soul. Comrades, heal me not. We will let this be a test of the Goddess's will." Without a good answer to this question (since the feat is essentially garbage otherwise), I went multiclass Star Pact Warlock instead. Perhaps you can tell from the above flavour text ;) Is this 4e's first save-or-die effect (although it's actually critically save and someone else dies). [/QUOTE]
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