Season of Sexism #2: The Fake Geek Girl; plus Origins Award Winners, and Red Aegis' designer dream t

Majoru Oakheart · Jun 18, 2013

Mike Eagling said:
Then apparently I'm not a geek, seeing as I've never played Portal?

No. Everyone misses at least a reference or two. I still miss Buffy references because I refuse to watch it. Sometimes someone makes a joke about an anime I've never seen. No big deal. That's why the safe references are as mainstream as possible. Star Wars, Star Trek, and Monty Python are the safe ones that almost all geeks have seen.

That being said, geek culture has become a thing. I have a feeling a good half of my friends haven't actually played Portal. They'd still get the reference because they hang out on the internet in places where these references get used.

People only get frustrated when they have to continually explain ALL their references. Geek culture is the same as many other cultures. In the same way that you'd be made fun of in a group of sports fans if you said something like "Who are the Lakers?" the same thing happens when you constantly show ignorance of the trappings of geek culture without attempting to fix it.

When I miss a reference I normally say something like "Where is that from anyways? Oh, it's from Farscape. I haven't watched that yet, but everyone says it's good. I'll make a note to watch it when I get the chance."

Mike Eagling · Jun 18, 2013

Majoru Oakheart said:
Heh. I'm still one of those people who doesn't ascribe to the "If you are obsessive over anything, you are a geek" philosophy, which I know is fairly common.

I think you've misconstrued what I meant, which was that I know geek girls but they always have "traditionally female" interests in addition to the genre stuff. I'm unsure whether or not that supports your earlier assertion that "most geek girls tend to limit the scope of their geekiness more than guys", it was really just an observation.

Majoru Oakheart said:
"Who are the Lakers?"

The irony here, of course, is that I've got absolutely no clue who or what the Lakers are!

The flaw in your definition of geek, as I see it, is that it comes across as quite localised: it's restricted to the in-jokes of your social circle, the group of people you got your geek on with. I don't think that applies any more.

I've not played Portal because I spend too much time playing Total War or Skyrim. I've no idea who the Lakers are because I come from a different continent. There is still a lot of common ground that the "average" geek will likely know but the culture is now enormous. It has a history spanning a minimum of 60 years, crosses international borders and the gender gap. Declaring someone to be "other than geek" because they don't get a narrow set of obscure references is outdated.

Morrus · Jun 18, 2013

I don't think it's even possible for an adult with a job and/or family to be fully knowledgeable about all genres of geekdom. I know nothing about CCGs, MMORPGS, or Manga, for example. I know quite a bit about RPGs (but not many, if I'm honest), a bit about DC comics, less about Marvel comics, little about other comics, plenty of sci-fi (but there are entire swathes I've never seen), a widish smattering of fantasy novels but by no means all of it, almost nothing about building or programming computers, but do run a website about tabletop games, nothing about American sports and little about British sports, haven't played Skyrim or Dragon Age II, didn't finish Arkham City (but enjoyed what I played), and am not much of a boardgamer (but am becoming more of one as I get older).

Majoru Oakheart · Jun 18, 2013

Mike Eagling said:
I think you've misconstrued what I meant, which was that I know geek girls but they always have "traditionally female" interests in addition to the genre stuff. I'm unsure whether or not that supports your earlier assertion that "most geek girls tend to limit the scope of their geekiness more than guys", it was really just an observation.

Ahh, yes. Then I agree with you.

Mike Eagling said:
The irony here, of course, is that I've got absolutely no clue who or what the Lakers are!

They are a basketball team. Though, that's the extent of my knowledge about them given my complete lack of knowledge about sports. My point was that in Sports Fan circles in the US, not knowing that would be a big deal. We're not in those circles, so it doesn't matter.

Mike Eagling said:
The flaw in your definition of geek, as I see it, is that it comes across as quite localised: it's restricted to the in-jokes of your social circle, the group of people you got your geek on with. I don't think that applies any more.

I think at this point the internet has created a kind of global geek culture. It isn't about the jokes in my circle of friends. It's the same jokes you'll see Wil Wheaton make in a speech at GenCon or reference in an episode of Tabletop. It's the same jokes Leo Laporte will reference on This Week In Tech. It will be referenced in every YouTube video, on message boards all over the internet, and on Big Bang Theory(I believe it has referenced both the "arrow to the knee" joke from Skyrim and the "Cake is a lie" joke from portal at this point).

Sure, there are some regional differences. However, in this age of high speed communication most geek culture disseminates very quickly. A video game becomes very popular, it gets great reviews. By the end of the week there are articles on websites talking about how experiencing the game is a MUST HAVE experience. Tech news shows are talking about its release and what it means for the industry. People, sucked in by the pressure of knowing that a number of their friends will want to discuss the game and that spoilers will be appearing all over the internet force themselves to complete it as quickly as possible so as not to be left out. Within a couple of weeks, you are seeing people dressing up in costumes as characters from the game at conventions.

I used a video game as an example. But the same thing happens with big geek movies. I can assume that nearly 90% of the geeks I know will have seen Iron Man 3 by this point. The slightly less geeky ones that put more focus on the non-geeky portions of their life will have skipped it. However, nearly everyone else will have gone. Most because they really wanted to see it. The rest because they didn't want to be left out of the conversation.

Once a geeky movie, tv show, or video game comes out, it enters the geek culture almost immediately these days.

Mike Eagling said:
I've not played Portal because I spend too much time playing Total War or Skyrim. I've no idea who the Lakers are because I come from a different continent. There is still a lot of common ground that the "average" geek will likely know but the culture is now enormous. It has a history spanning a minimum of 60 years, crosses international borders and the gender gap. Declaring someone to be "other than geek" because they don't get a narrow set of obscure references is outdated.

I think this is where the disconnect is. There is a strong, core geek culture that is always keeping up to date on geek culture. They check gaming news sites nearly daily, they spend weekends attempting to finish the latest game, they have a couple of conventions a year picked out.

Meanwhile, there is a more "cottage industry" geek community filled with people who might self identify as a geek but geekdom doesn't really affect their daily lives. They might go an entire week without having anything geeky affect their lives. Their lives are filled with work, taking their kids to soccer practice, watching a hockey game on tv, going out to dinner with their non-geek friends and discussing taxes and weather. These people often pass as perfectly normal most of the time. Most of their friends may not even know about their geekiness.

The conflict tends to happen at places where the two camps of geek meet, like conventions. The core geeks gather together to revel in being around people who are as obsessive as they are. And often, male geeks see conventions as one of the only places to meet women who share their likes. A number of women are "cottage industry" geeks. It can come across as fake. Many geeks feel that geekdom isn't something you make time for once a month or once a year. It's what you do every day.

I'm not condoning it. I'm just explaining what I see. I know it can be extremely disappointing to see a woman at a convention wearing a pikachu costume and think "So, they are likely a video game player AND an anime fan and a pretty obsessive one at that to wear a costume...I'll go talk to them"; only to find out that the only video game they've ever played has been Pokemon, they've never seen the show or any anime and the costume was their friends idea. So was coming to the con. But they are finding it very interesting seeing all the people in their....Space Trek costumes and playing strange games they've never seen before.

It can feel like our private place has been invaded by outsiders.

Majoru Oakheart · Jun 18, 2013

Morrus said:
I don't think it's even possible for an adult with a job and/or family to be fully knowledgeable about all genres of geekdom.

It isn't possible for anyone to be fully knowledgeable about everything. Though that doesn't stop us from trying most of the time. Heck, I think that's why even geekdom is divides into its own sub-communities based on what are our favorite geek passtimes.

Mike Eagling · Jun 18, 2013

Majoru Oakheart said:
They are a basketball team. Though, that's the extent of my knowledge about them given my complete lack of knowledge about sports. My point was that in Sports Fan circles in the US, not knowing that would be a big deal. We're not in those circles, so it doesn't matter.

Well, even if we agree on nothing else we have this in common. I know next to nothing about UK sports. It's probably because I was born in Watford*. Solidarity brother

* This is an equally obscure football joke that would literally have my sporty friends howling with laughter!

Umbran · Jun 18, 2013

Majoru Oakheart said:
I'll say this about "fake geek girls": It's been my experience that most geek girls tend to limit the scope of their geekiness more than guys.

Yah, but as any geek should know* - the plural of anecdote is not data.

It's rare to meet one who is into: RPGs, Miniature games, Magic the Gathering, Anime, Comic Books, Sci-fi, Fantasy, Computers/Technology, Board Games, and Video Games all at the same time. Whereas I know...quite a few guys who like all of those things. Plus, those guys are not just INTO all of those things...they have libraries of board games, they've memorized the plot of every episode of Star Trek, they built their own computers, and so on.

That's nice. I don't play minis games, I haven't touched M:tG in a decade or more, I don't regularly watch anime, play board games or video games.

You want to tell me that I'm not a geek, then? Do I not pass the geek test?

If I pass a geek test, so does a woman with similar interests and investment to mine. Your geeks that have no spare time for anything other than geekdom do not stand as the base definition of the beast - they are instead the extreme of the beast. When the extreme is used as the standard definition you get a skewed view of the universe.

*By what I see of Majoru's definition, anyway - this point is fairly central to science literacy, and I am pretty sure his definition of geekdom includes a basic level of understanding science. Unfortunately, geeks are actually no better than anyone else at remembering and applying it when speaking about what they believe.

innerdude · Jun 18, 2013

Mike Eagling said:
* This is an equally obscure football joke that would literally have my sporty friends howling with laughter!

To say nothing of the fact that you Brits' definition of "football" is decidedly inferior to our American version.

(Hopefully the "tongue-in-cheek" aspect of this comment is fully understood . . . All you British Premiere League-rs, don't come burn down my house, mmkay?)

Dannyalcatraz · Jun 18, 2013

Mike Eagling said:
Then apparently I'm not a geek, seeing as I've never played Portal?

*whistle*
Nothing to see here, nothing to see here. Please move along.

Alan Shutko · Jun 18, 2013

Perhaps it would make things much simpler if we had a worldwide geek certification organization. Similar to technology and other certifications, there would be a base curriculum that would be tested, and there could be additional concentrations available to certify deeper, more specialized interests.

Once you were certified, you would be given an NFC badge that would advertise your certification level. Fellow geeks could determine your specialization by using their smartphones. Obviously, people who have iPhones aren't geeks so the fact that iPhones don't do NFC doesn't matter. I suppose an iPhone-wielding geek could add-on an nfc reader of some sort.

I think enworld would be perfectly positioned to begin this certification process. It should provide a decent income source.

Season of Sexism #2: The Fake Geek Girl; plus Origins Award Winners, and Red Aegis' designer dream t

Majoru Oakheart

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Mike Eagling

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