D&D 5E Presence attack: Intimidation as an attack

[peterka9]

There is lack of parameters for this skill, especially in combat. Other games like TORG and HERO has better integration in combat.

house rules:

Intimidation modifiers

For every person affected after the first -2
Target has resistance to charm, compulsion, frightened: disadvantage

Effect: Grant disadvantage a ability (including skill and combat) rolls for Charisma Bonus rounds (min 1)

Follow-up effect:

Presence attack (non magical, based on vicious mockery cantrip loosely, better if psionics is not used)

Presence attack
Activation Time: 1 action
Prerequisite: Intimidate skill proficiency.
Range: 60 feet
Components: V or S
Duration: Instantaneous
Your gaze or words may remove any mental endurance from
at a creature you can see within range. If
the target can hear or see you (though it need not understand
you), it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take
1d6 psychic (non-lethal) damage, plus damage equals to any Charisma modifier. An intimidated creature
has a disadvantage to the roll.
Reduce health to 0 cause target to become helpless and demoralized, unable to concentrate,
but still conscious. Healing to 1p will remove the stunned condition.

For those liking strong-willed heroes instead of sneaky rogues:

Mental knife
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to mentally strike subtly
and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to presence attack
to one creature you hit that is intimidated. You don’t need this if another enemy o f the target is
within 5 feet o f it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on
the attack roll. The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the mental knife column o f the Strong-willed hero table (based on rogue sneak attack).

(I consider changing rogues for a new WS and INT based class, like the Strong-willed generic class like found in 3.5 modern d20) :

Modified rogue:

1) Replace Dx by WS saves, slippery mind (extra WS save) at 15th replaces by a DX save
2) Remove Thief cant, replaced by another language.
3) Replace sneak attack by mental knife
4) Evasion is based on INT saves, not DX

For the roguish archetypes: inquisitive, mastermind and other homebrew archetypes....

 

[Xeviat]

Wouldn't this just be a generic Demoralize action based on the Battle Master's maneuver?

You don't need a bonus for being higher level, that's proficiency bonus.

Intimidate vs Wisdom or Charisma save works perfectly.

Action: Charisma (Intimidate) check opposed by Wisdom or Charisma save or Wisdom (Insight) or Charisma (Intimidation) check. On a success, the target is frightened of you for one round.

 

[jgsugden]

In my experience, social skills work better without fixed mechanics. It is more art than science as there are to many factors to be considered by a rule set.

 

[Torquar]

Wouldn't this just be a generic Demoralize action based on the Battle Master's maneuver?

You don't need a bonus for being higher level, that's proficiency bonus.

Intimidate vs Wisdom or Charisma save works perfectly.

Action: Charisma (Intimidate) check opposed by Wisdom or Charisma save or Wisdom (Insight) or Charisma (Intimidation) check. On a success, the target is frightened of you for one round.

So Fighters and Barbarians are particularly vulnerable to Intimidation?

 

[peterka9]

intimidate is the pretext to introduce the presence attack. I know some game, using Mental Hit points, where words can really hurt (or at least render one helpless).

My presence attack is opposed by a wisdom save. It might be as well a charisma check. Strong-willed barbs can resist well.

to answer: Wouldn't this just be a generic Demoralize action based on the Battle Master's maneuver?

"Menacing Attack. When you hit a creature with a
weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to
attempt to frighten the target. You add the superiority
die to the attack’s damage roll, and the target must
make a W isdom saving throw. On a failed save, it is
frightened o f you until the end o f your next turn." (PHB, p74)

No, I don't like it. You must use weapons, and my concept is using mind.

 

[aco175]

Is this to allow anyone trained in Intimidate to be able to damage someone who can see them or is this more of a modified fear ability say from a dragon?

I can see it being used all the time if any PC is able to use it. Same as in 2e days when the paladin would ask if every person he met was evil since he can detect evil. It could be great as a NPC ability except you are now telling the player how his PC feels and we have had several threads about this.

 

[Stormonu]

If it does actual damage, I think I would make it a feat.

 

[Fenris-77]

I don't like the logic of making the most physically intimidating classes the most vulnerable to being intimidated themselves. As a skill intimidate lacks that whole physical dimension anyway. I might treat it more like grappling and allow STR/CHA to both use and resist. DEX fighters can take a hike. On the one hand, this makes sense thematically for intimidate, and on the other hand STR needs more to do, while on a surprising third hand a game where Barbarians flee from Bards is terrible and people should feel bad for playing it.

 

[peterka9]

Well, I basically wrote it as an alternate way for rogues to use sneak attack, for characters using "the pen is mightier than the sword " as a reality. Consider it as a cantrip, so a feat should include : +1 CH, intimidate skill+ presence attack. Or reserve it to the special modified rogue class I mentionned at the end of the initial post.

It is true the character will get an edge, being able to damage without weapons. But consider the fact there is lot of creatures that can't be intimidated. I think it is fair trade:

At a sneak attack alternative:

pro: no attack, a dave- so no AoO and not affected by disadvantages factors, can be used unarmed
con: unable to sneak attack by surprise, need an extra round to intimidate ( or a friend next to the target), lower base attack dice, rogues usually get a 1d8).

Not really realistic, but D&D is not. Every class should be able to get massive damage from a turn (or heal it), that is D&D law. Otherwise, play another more realist system!

 

[Fenris-77]

Being able to damage without weapons is fine, generally we call it magic. Seriously though,I just don't think it does a good job representing a 'menacing' attack, that's all, mostly because of the issues Intimidate already suffers from as a skill. Very much IMO.