D&D 3E/3.5 Noble PC class (SW/3e hybrid to make viable PC choice)

[WaterRabbit]

Class Skills
The noble's class skills, and the key ability for each, are as follows (see PHB, Chapter
Four: Skills for skill descriptions).
Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int),
Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha),
Knowledge (Int, all skills taken individually), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession
(Wis), Read Lips (Int, exclusive skill), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language
(Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Wilderness Lore (Wis).

I am still looking at it but here is my first comment:
Listen, Read Lips, Spot, & Wilderness Lore seem out of place with this class concept.
Also, I would limit them to medium armors and not allow heavy, you are (I assume) not representing a knight here. Also, why all martial weapons ? It does not make sense for this class to use two-handed weapons or even bows and slings. This class would use weapons that can be carried into a king's court -- rapier, long sword, etc.
I personally am lukewarm to the Favors and Resources powers. the are both weak and don't lead to good roleplaying.
Overall, most attempts to create this class have not been successful. The result of most efforts has been an unfocused class that is not strong where it should be.
The question I have for you is "What game problem are you trying to solve with this class and how does it do it better than any other class"? I think a cleric will overshadow this class in the average game session. The only thing that you have added here is weak resource generation that will most likely be used to power magic item creation.
Finally, "the noble" suffers from the problem that "the samuri" suffers from -- why would he adventure with the normal scumbags that make up most parties? The noble would only adventure with other high born characters. I think what you are really trying to create here is a bard that works.

 

[peterka1]

Any Middle Ages noble was trained as a youth as a warrior. here a new version of my own noble, (merchant, notable, etc).

Noble

Hit Die:
Nobles gain 1d6 hit points per level. The character's Constitution modifier applies.


Class Skills
The noble's class skills, and the key ability for each, are as follows (see PHB, Chapter
Four: Skills for skill descriptions).
Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Forgery (Int),
Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha),
Knowledge (Int, all skills taken individually), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession
(Wis), Read Lips (Int, exclusive skill), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language
(Int), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use magical device (Ch, exclusive skill), Wilderness Lore (Wis).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (8 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 8 + Int modifier.

A noble that multiclass is still a noble, he just doesn't get his charisma to higher reach.

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the noble:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency
The noble may be proficient in the use of all simple and martial weapons and with all types of
armor and shields or not as militia (simple, medium armor, shields). Note that armor check penalties for armor heavier than leather apply to the skills Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble.


Starting Wealth: A noble earns extra monetary wealth. In essence, this can represent any number of things in the game world: An inheritance, a grant, an increase in the aristocrat's station, a lucky trade affair, or simply the continuing growth in value of existing domains. The DM and player should work together to determine the form the new wealth takes each time this option is used. Suggested forms include landed wealth (a manor, rich city house, farmlands, mines, etc), monetary wealth (gems, money) or magical items (should not occur often, but not too rarely either).

The noble possess as non-gear starting assets 1000 * charisma bonus (from parents) . Only half the money may be gear. They have the wealth feat.

Wealth feat: Any character may cash the difference between next pc level starting gear (as in DMG, p 43) and actual character level as a feat. Ex: level 1: +900; level 2: level 3 2000- level 2 900


Status: A noble get an extra character level + charisma bonuses to diplomacy or intimidation rolls made to get help/positive answer from people who recognize her status and care about eventual refusal consequences (ex: to get hospitality from the wary peasant from your estates, aware there are werewolfs lurking around, not dealing with a bandit). Ex: level 12 duke Elron with ch 14 get a +14 bonus.

Taken at first level: born noble- get martial proficiencies… and more consideration from nobles.

For other classes: DMs rule determines if titles are gifts or must be taken as a feat.

Inspire Confidence (bless- equivalent, exceptionnal; prer 5 ranks in diplomacy
A noble can use oratory to inspire confidence in allies, bolstering them and improving their chances of success. An ally must listen to and observe the noble for a full round for the inspiration to take hold. The effect lasts for 3 rounds + charisma bonus and may used charisma bonuses times a day (min 1). She may inspire a number of allies equal to half her noble levels, rounded up. An ally inspired with confidence gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws and a +1 morale bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. The noble can't inspire confidence in herself. The ability only aids her allies. At higher levels, a noble gets more applications a day.

Coordinate (exceptionnal); prer 6 ranks in diplomacy
A noble has a knack for getting people to work together. When the noble can aid others
and give directions, she provides a bonus to the task at hand by making an aid another
check. This bonus is in addition to the normal aid another bonus (+2), and it increases
every four noble class levels. So, the noble provides a total +3 bonus at 5th level (+2 aid
another bonus, +1 cooperation bonus), a +4 bonus at 9th level, etc. (+4). This ability can't be
used to assist in combat.

Leadership
At 6th level, the noble gain the Leadership feat. Bonuses apply at later levels.

Inspire Greatness (exceptionnal); prer 7 ranks in diplomacy
Beginning at 7th level, a noble can inspire greatness in an ally, granting extra fighting
capability. This works similar to inspire confidence, except it affects but a single ally. An
ally inspired with greatness gains +2d6 temporary hit points, a +2 competence bonus on
attacks, and a +2 morale bonus to saving throws. The effect lasts for 8 rounds + charisma bonus. The noble
can inspire greatness once per day. For every two class levels attained beyond 7th level, the noble can inspire greatness in one additional ally. The noble can't inspire greatness in herself. The ability only aids her allies. At higher levels, a noble gets more applications a day.

Entrall (exceptionnal); prer 8 ranks in diplomacy
As cleric spell. Saves vs 10 + ½ noble levels rounded up + charisma bonuses. Can be use one a day. At higher levels, a noble gets more applications a day.

New class (noble )

Wealth, status and fighter proficiencies for nobles or militia for those not born nobles

2nd +2 diplomacy, sense motive and bluff
3rd inspire confidence
4th
5th Coordinate +3
6th Leadership
7th Inspire greatness
8th
9th Enthrall, coordinate +4
10th special
11th +1 Extra abilities use/day, Leadership +1
12th
13th Special, +1 Extra abilities use/day, coordinate +5
14th Leadership +2
15th +1 Extra abilities use/day
16th special
17th bonus feat, Leadership +3, coordinate +6
18th Coordinate +5
19th +1 Extra abilities use/day, special
20th Leadership +4

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Re: Re: Noble PC class (SW/3e hybrid to make viable PC choice)

I am still looking at it but here is my first comment:
Listen, Read Lips, Spot, & Wilderness Lore seem out of place with this class concept.
Also, I would limit them to medium armors and not allow heavy, you are (I assume) not representing a knight here. Also, why all martial weapons ? It does not make sense for this class to use two-handed weapons or even bows and slings. This class would use weapons that can be carried into a king's court -- rapier, long sword, etc.
I personally am lukewarm to the Favors and Resources powers. the are both weak and don't lead to good roleplaying.
Overall, most attempts to create this class have not been successful. The result of most efforts has been an unfocused class that is not strong where it should be.
The question I have for you is "What game problem are you trying to solve with this class and how does it do it better than any other class"? I think a cleric will overshadow this class in the average game session. The only thing that you have added here is weak resource generation that will most likely be used to power magic item creation.
Finally, "the noble" suffers from the problem that "the samuri" suffers from -- why would he adventure with the normal scumbags that make up most parties? The noble would only adventure with other high born characters. I think what you are really trying to create here is a bard that works.

I copied the weapons & armor and class skills directly from the aristocrat in the DMG. I am a little leery of the favors and resources as well, but don't know what to swap them for... Every noble class seems to use them. The noble would certainly not wish to associate with the typical scumbags in an adventuring party, you are right, as it would tend to give him a poor reputation among his peers and the common folk as well. I see this class as being more for specific types of campaigns where either all the PCs are nobility of some sort (knights, lords, etc.), or retainers for one (PC or NPC). Of course, they also work as buffed-up NPCs.

 

[peterka1]

nobles are like priests, wizards and paladins. Higher class but would-be adventurers.

Comments about my version (have merit to duplicate any rogue ability at same level, easier to compare and balance...)

 

[Tonguez]

My opinion

There is a 'Noble' living two doors down from my home. He is married to my fathers cousin, he is the son of an English Earl.

Anyway the point is NOT all Nobles are the landed gentry the naysayers are presuming - the the fourth son of a Earl or twelth son of a Duke even IS a Noble but is really no more 'important' than the rest of us 'scumbags'.

The BIG thing they do have is Contacts and quite probably an Allowance (my neighbour has one of these worth $400,000 per annum). The British Embassy has only once sent a car up to deliver an important message.

As such the Favours and Wealth options are quite 'realistic' (although RPwise may be limiting) .

The other thing people are missing is that Adventurers are NOT Peasant 'scumbags' - peasants stayed at home tilling the fields and never went beyond Old Man Fograts Barn (see Sam in LOTR) as such Adventurers would most likely be low ranking nobles, the sons of merchants (Experts) or some other kind of 'non commoner with whom the Noble could mix (it might be frowned upon but not absolutely not done)'

You are noble or you are not. It would be hard to multiclass...

Not sure what you mean here peterka1

Noble/Cleric
Saint Francis of Assissi was the son of a Merchant, he spent time as a Soldier before becoming a Friar ie he was Noble/Fighter/Cleric

Most of the Nobles who went of on the Great Crusade were away from their lands for years (even decades) but still retained their rank

Listen, Read Lips, Spot, & Wilderness Lore

I agree that Wilderness Lore seems 'out of place' but with all the rest and the Martial Weapons issue I think they are fine.

In short I like all the models presented and would need to play test them before making a final verdict...

 

[WaterRabbit]

Re: My opinion

There is a 'Noble' living two doors down from my home. He is married to my fathers cousin, he is the son of an English Earl.

Current noblility is not really comparable here. Also, most of the "Nobles" you refer to in the rest of your post we already have classes for -- the Cleric, the Fighter, the Paladin.

The BIG thing they do have is Contacts and quite probably an Allowance (my neighbour has one of these worth $400,000 per annum). The British Embassy has only once sent a car up to deliver an important message.

As such the Favours and Wealth options are quite 'realistic' (although RPwise may be limiting) .

The problem with Favors and Wealth is that the character shows up for the first ten minutes of the adventure and then is done for the rest of it. There is no drama here! Frankly it is just bland.

The other thing people are missing is that Adventurers are NOT Peasant 'scumbags' - peasants stayed at home tilling the fields

Sorry, this was meant to be with tongue planted in cheek.


So again, I ask "What problem does the class solve"? Why are we trying to create it ? (I am assuming a PC class.) Here is how I see it:

Problem: There is not a good "Face" character in D&D. The closest we come to it are the paladin and the cleric. The bard does not work in a party of more than 3 characters. The "jack of all trades character" is overshadowed by all other classes.

D&D characters are interesting because they must make decisions. With the Bard and the Noble variants, there is no dramatic choices. Combat starts, inspire confidence, sit on sidelines. Influence others, make diplomacy roll, sit on sidelines. Generate cash, sit on sidelines, etc.

How is the "Noble" better at charisma type of challenges than a paladin or cleric (or a Wizard with charm person)?
That is the answer we must answer for this class to become interesting. Remeber that most D&D sessions are about 4 hours. Usually, one of those hours is devoted to combat. So, with the current Noble concept, the player does Inspire confidence (a no brainer) and then sits out for an hour.

I think the class should more closely resemble "The Face" archetype from Shadowrun. I have a few ideas on how to make this class interesting, but they are still in development. I will keep you informed.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Thanks, water rabbit. Looking forward to your continued input!

 

[peterka1]

If a noble is richer, he gets more money for good equpment (lower levels) and magic items (higher levels); it's possibly to fight...

Anyway, a cleric usually cast spells and then go to combat, with same combat capability as my noble.

d8 hit dice and 6 skills points equals d6 and 8 skills points, except at 1st character levels (x4!)

I just created a noble for my next game (as a player, with dm help) and will test it... level 2 noble with starting gear as 3nd (2700 gp vs 900 gp) grant me all non-magical arms and armors i wanted...

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

"Favors may also take the form of luxurious and extended hospitality, invitations to
exclusive fancy dress balls or dinner parties, introductions to important social, business or
marriage contacts, consultations, etc."

Just added the above text to help define additional uses for favors in my original post.

 

[bret]

If you want a better way to handle favors, how about this:

---

Favors: This ability allows you to use the Gather Information skill to find friendly contacts and draw in personal favors. A noble often has a vast array of contacts and is often adding to their contacts. Some choose to use blackmail, while others just offer preferential treatment.

The Gather Information skill should be penalized based on how far the noble is from his own estate, and further penalized if in a country different from the one he rules in.

---

This allows the PC to 'know someone' pretty much where ever he goes. It needs to be made clear to the PC that friends of a noble will often be fickle (but what have you done for me lately?), since the aid is often given out of greed or promises of power.

The other option (and this would work for other classes as well) is to allow them to get Leadership at first level, and define the commoner followers to be 'generic contacts' that the player knows. This would also allow a rogue to have an 'information network' using the leadership feat.