High level 3.5 - tricks for keeping the numbers game quick and easy?

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

So if the battle gets too complicated, I should just ignore certain rules?

You're putting words in my mouth. I said 'if you forget' not 'ignore the rule'.

The slowdown (IME) comes when someone who is not good with the rules or at organizing their stuff obesesses over every last detail. Can you keep track of all your modifiers? Great! Do you forget something from time to time, but just say 'Oh well, next time I'll remember.'? Fine.

Do you forget your modifiers all the time, then either try to retcon the last round, or scramble through your notes trying to turn a miss into a hit, and then whine if you get told no? Not fine or OK.

 

[Staffan]

Necromancer Games has an "Ultimate Combat Sheet" where you can fill in your "base" stats, and then fill in situational modifiers in different columns (along with the new total). I think it's pretty nifty, and use it with my wereboar (slightly modified version) halfling PC. You can find it at http://www.necromancergames.com/freestuff.html, in the second entry (along with a pretty good 2-page character sheet).

 

[Orryn Emrys]

2) Do you have laptops and know how to use a spreadsheet program? (e.g. excel) If so use it. There are numerous electronic aids that will hold a character sheet/calculate the bonuses for you. It's always faster at the gaming table if you can just drop a "+4" in for your dex score and have everything automatically update rather then having to recalculate, AC (Normal, Flat footed, and Touch ) and Ranged To hit for each weapon on paper.

We never had any serious trouble keeping track of this sort of thing, but it was always a lot of bookwork. I finally invested in a laptop before the current campaign got underway, however, and it has alleviated the headaches completely. I use DM Genie to run my games, and in the manner of the aforementioned spreadsheet solution, changes are made in every corner of the program any time the simplest change is implemented. I've become so reliant on it, in fact, that I think that I would have a seriously less enjoyable time running a game "manually" if the machine were to crash one of these days.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

A couple things...

1) I use Excel spreadsheets as character records. These prove invaluable when players are absent, especially the combat section where I've preprogrammed it to auto-calculate all attack and damage rolls (complete with random number generator to simulate the d20 rolls). If you have a lot of combatants, it isn't that difficult to set something up beforehand to minimize the work you'll need to do during the battle. In the past, I've made quick sheets that had all the monsters and their attacks on it so a simple F9 rerolls every attack and damage roll on the sheet.

2) Use initiative cards. Not only does it make keeping track of initiative easy, but it also allows you to make little notes on each character's/monster's card for spells in effect, status, hp, etc. I have a card for the start of the round on which I mark each round so I know how long the battle has been going. If I want to track spell durations, I just shorthand the spell and then note what the last round of effect will be (so if it's round 10 and the spell last 10 rounds, I'll mark round 20 as the last round for X spell).

3) KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). If you're controlling a lot of monsters, they don't all need to be making special attacks and using tricky modifiers. Keep it simple (maybe make all monsters trip or disarm for one round, then attack for another).

 

[Baron Opal]

I currently have 7-9 players at a time and we're at 5th level. Things have gotten complicated for me already. Things I do for my NPCs:

1) Notecards, Notecards, Notecards. Every major NPC / captain has their own notecard. This takes some time to make, but it's part of the fun for me. Soldiers / individuals have the same notecard. Most of the time this divides up the NPCs into two groups which spaces things out a little in the initiative order. Each player also has their own notecard where I keep notes to remind me of their condition and initiative order.

2) For things like power attack, expertise, etc., I have three settings: no, half, and full effect. For the majority of the time, that's all I need. Also, it's what I select for those players in my group who are novices. I inform them of the mechanics, and write out those options for them. For "fine tuning", they're on their own, and they usually don't bother.

Baron Opal

 

[kenobi65]

1) Notecards, Notecards, Notecards. Every major NPC / captain has their own notecard. This takes some time to make, but it's part of the fun for me. Soldiers / individuals have the same notecard. Most of the time this divides up the NPCs into two groups which spaces things out a little in the initiative order. Each player also has their own notecard where I keep notes to remind me of their condition and initiative order.

Have you seen The Game Mechanics' Initiative Cards? They're pre-formatted notecards, just like what you're describing. I won't DM without 'em anymore, and use one color for the PCs, and a different one for NPCs.

Best of all, they're a free download.

 

[ashockney]

Hey Enkhidu! We've played together at the Ohio ENWorld Gameday if I recall, and you may have seen my spreadsheets for 14th level characters and monsters that can "auto calc" rolls, including all the appropriate benefits (Assault on the Fire Giant's Citadel). It is, however, an ENORMOUS task for the DM to keep track of, and more importantly, prepare for. This time will eventually deter from your ability to focus your time on building the even more complex and layered stories your players deserve!

If you are blessed with the good fortune of gaming with fresh-minded, game designers, you may have no problems. Otherwise, for the majority of all other D&D players, the wheels completely fall off the game above 12th level.

How bad does it get? There are 49 conditions that affect combat and 144 modifiers to those conditions. You can't remember all of that in your head? Come on!
That's not even factoring in types of attacks, # of attacks, attack bonuses, armor classes and armor class modifiers, damage, and damage modifiers. I think you get the exponentially worse picture. There are some big opportunities to improve it. (For my fellow analysts and managers out there, yes, I actually process mapped D&D combat.)

Suggestions: well, first and foremost, make sure your group is committed to making this work. It will truely need to be a team effort. Everyone will have to do a little more work to make things go more smoothly. Second, I've found an excel spreadsheet to be a DM's good friend. Finally, I recommend talking to your group about combining and limiting the hundreds of effects that can become a real pain to keep track of at this level. For example, what if all morale, luck, sacred, divine, competence, and size bonuses were combined into a more generic "buff" bonus, and these bonuses generally lasted for 1 combat. It makes life a lot simpler for everyone. It's not like the party or the DM will be lacking for ways, but it prevents everyone from being forced to cast 12 different spells and do hours of research to find that one optimal combination, and keep track of each modifier separately. Same thing goes for the myriad of defensive capabilities - armor class, resistances, immunities, cover, concealment, displacement, blinking, and damage reduction. It will become very complex, very quickly if it hasn't already. Streamline this as much as possible, using the same "simplicity" approach as with buffing. Near the end of the campaign, and as you enter epic, there should be pretty standard "defense arrays" available to your players, when in various states of preparedness.

I hope this helps. Let me know what you've tried, and what works! This is an area of particular interest to me, and I'm trying to help pull together the best practices that can be used to make the game better at high levels. I'll be testing some of this at Origins this year (under Myrik Games). Hope to see you there!

 

[Quasqueton]

Bull's strength: 70..69...68..67..66..65..64
Endurance: 70..69..68..67..66..65
Divine Favor: 10..9..8..7..6
Divine Power: 7..6..5..4

I wouldn't even bother counting down the min/level spells. Those spells should be adjudicated as either expired by the time initiative is rolled (if they were cast well before the beginning of combat) or just lasting the entire fight (if cast during or right before battle is joined).

So in this case, you really only have 2 spells to count down. And in most cases, those spells will last longer than the combat itself.

A spreadsheet for D&D combat? This is at least one reason I maintain that d20 3.5 is not D&D . . .

Yeah, combat numbers should be kept to charts in a book the Players aren't even supposed to have at the table. Hell, I've seen dessert recipes kept on a spreadsheet. Computers at the game table are not a sign/symptom of the game, they are a sign/symptom of living in the 21st century.

Quasqueton

 

[Taren Seeker]

I play a lot of higher level D&D, usually around character levels 16-18. Really all that is needed is for every player to have a scratch pad to keep track of effects as they change. If a bard song goes up, make the change. If you don't and miss the bonus sometimes, tough patooties. Also keep a running list of active spell effects upon yourself and the caster level in case you get dispelled. When power attacking or CEing, make the decision on how much you are using, jot down your total AB and damage then start rolling. Don't sit there and agonize over whether you should PA for 2 or 3. As a fighter type I usually PA for 2, 4 or full. Often I will PA enough to even out my bonuses to keep the math simple Also when I get situatioal bonuses like flanking or higher ground, I just drop the extra into PA, again reducing the amount of writing I have to do.

For excessive buffing have the spellcaster(s) keep track of his durations and call out when they expire. Again, scratch pads are key. Quite frankly, durations ending during combat are rarely an issue, especially when you get to 10+ level.

Also for excessive buffing, groups that play together a lot will probably have a pretty standard set of buffs. Casters really only need to say "buffing" then write some stuff down, and tell specific playes what they are casting on them. If they are doing something unusual then tell the DM specifically what you are casting.

Finally, as a DM you are not going to be able to micromanage every bonus or change. Trust your players.

 

[RithTheAwakener]

Well my group is now epic (from 21 to 25 with ECL added in) and we dont really have a problem with this. Our mage and cleric all have a buff list with their bonuses, which nearly last all day at epic levels, and me (the fighter) have a separate attack bonus and damage chart already lined up for things like Bull Str, and for the minor bonuses like Bless and whatnot i just add an extra 1 to it. Its pretty basic, and helps me roll all 5 of my attacks and tally my damage in a very short amount of time...

Preparation is the key, know what buffs they WILL cast, and have something ready for it... As for spell durations, make a little box on a piece of paper and put D20s in there with round durations left, but keep the paper, cuz theyll prolly cast the same buffs every fight. (EDIT: we do the same as above, where if the buff will last the whole fight, we dont worry about it, and just count the rest of em, very ez)

GL