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WotC Hasbro's CEO Reports OGL-Related D&D Beyond Cancellations Had Minimal Impact

Hasbro held a quarterly earnings call recently in which CEO Chris Cocks (who formerly ran WotC before being promoted) indicated that the OGL controversy had a "comparatively minor" impact on D&D's revenue due to D&D Beyond subscription cancellations. He also noted that D&D grew by 20% in 2022 (Magic: the Gathering revenues grew by an astonishing 40% in Quarter 4!) WotC as a whole was up 22%...

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Hasbro held a quarterly earnings call recently in which CEO Chris Cocks (who formerly ran WotC before being promoted) indicated that the OGL controversy had a "comparatively minor" impact on D&D's revenue due to D&D Beyond subscription cancellations. He also noted that D&D grew by 20% in 2022 (Magic: the Gathering revenues grew by an astonishing 40% in Quarter 4!)

WotC as a whole was up 22% in Q4 2022.

Lastly, on D&D, we misfired on updating our Open Gaming License, a key vehicle for creators to share or commercialize their D&D inspired content. Our best practice is to work collaboratively with our community, gather feedback, and build experiences that inspire players and creators alike - it's how we make our games among the best in the industry. We have since course corrected and are delivering a strong outcome for the community and game.
 

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I'm not convinced that WotC wanted to shut down 3PP publishers (and/or Paizo and others) in order to take over the tabletop RPG market. They already took over it a few years ago. 5e is a behemoth. To me it looks like the suits at Hasbro/WotC are more concerned about video games and movies and TV shows. The Legend of Vox Machina could've been a revenue stream for Hasbro if the licensing around D&D was different. Right now it's a big hit on Amazon Prime, originally based on or using Hasbro's IP but in a roundabout way, yet a massive lost opportunity for the brand. It's possible that other similar business opportunities arise from the fairly lax legal situation around D&D.

The new OGL they tried to force on 3PP's was such an obvious trap that it seems screamingly obvious that it was an attempt to destroy them.

That absurdly open-ended content approval clause, where they could revoke the license for any publisher at any time on their judgment of the content alone (supposedly hate-based, but again, solely their judgment) and waiving any right at an outside oversight or judicial review of that would be a blank check for them to shut anyone down at any time, for any reason, with no recourse.

Then there was the explicit ability to amend or revoke the license at any time for any reason. Why would you put time and effort into producing products your company relied on when they were based on a license that could be cancelled at any time, for any reason, with no recourse whatsoever? The very fact they had rescinded the d20 STL in 2008 and that in this scenario they would have "de authorized" OGL 1.0a (after saying for ~20 years they could never do that) would mean no business in their right mind would trust WotC with a license like that.
 

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The new OGL they tried to force on 3PP's was such an obvious trap that it seems screamingly obvious that it was an attempt to destroy them.
An obvious trap? To destroy them? To what end?

It seems to me you have created a target but haven't established a path to the target or even a motivation for someone to be shooting at the target.

Would you mind putting into words what it is exactly you are upset about?
 

WotC is not a charity either. Whether someone else can make a living on their product is of no concern to them. When they do deem it beneficial they enable it, when they do not.
If they want to be utterly amoral and unethical in their business practices, they can be, and we can reject them for it. There's absolutely no reason to act like unethical business behaviour needs to be respected or accepted. Indeed, they were forced to behave ethically because of the consequences of failing to do so, so it's clear a lot of people agree (including some WotC people!).
In my experience deciding to go for more profit does not have to be greed (as defined as an intense and selfish desire for wealth). That is just a different road taken without any intense desire. Selfish, maybe. But aren't we all selfish? I see you posting here instead of fixing the worlds wrongs. I would call that selfish. And I'm selfish as well on many levels and not so much at other levels. I personally think that is part of the human condition: survival. If I was completely selfless I would be building infrastructure in the poorest parts of the world and would probably already be dead...
LMAO is the only response to this. It's meaningless and self-contradictory dime-store/cod philosophy, and that's the kindest thing I can say about it.
Can a company be selfish? Can a company be intense? Can a company desire? Maybe the people that work for, control and/or own the company, but not the company itself.
Corporate personhood mate. I think it's reasonable as long as that conceit exists in law to characterise the company negatively as a person from an ethical perspective too if they're going to get insane benefits from being treated as one.
 

Cergorach

The Laughing One
Magic like card game will always be a niche game. even at 1 billion revenue.
DnD is also in the same niche, a game with 3 books and over 600 pages as core rules will stay in a narrow niche forever.

Wotc may dream of more billions revenue and more millions customers, but the last crisis bring them back to reality.

improved VTT is another business, DnD simplified to appeal the mass is also another business to create.
Some sources say that currently 25% of WotC revenue is from digital sales. If that holds true for Magic, only ~$250k of that $1B+ in Magic revenue is from Magic Arena (and a few other digital products). Hearthstone does something like $670k/year, so there is plenty of growth on the digital side of Magic. Getting to $1.5B doesn't seem impossible for magic, maybe not in 2023, but it certainly could happen. As for the physical side of things, on many levels Magic had a LOT of issues in 2022 and still it had ~€750k in revenue from physical goods.

And that's just from physical cards and a digital version of said card game. Now imagine other types of computer games, movies, TV series, etc. Depending on how WotC exploits that, that could be license income or they could do it themselves... But it seems they tried setting that up and promptly pulled the rug from most of it.

If you had said 30 years ago that Magic would generate $1B in revenue, I would have probably hurt myself from laughing so loud! If you had asked me how mainstream D&D would become, I wouldn't have imagined this level of mainstream. Computer games would never become mainstream, now look at it!
 

Cergorach

The Laughing One
Corporate personhood mate. I think it's reasonable as long as that conceit exists in law to characterise the company negatively as a person from an ethical perspective too if they're going to get insane benefits from being treated as one.
LMAO is the only response to this. It's meaningless and self-contradictory dime-store/cod philosophy, and that's the kindest thing I can say about it. ;)

There's a difference between a legal construct and emotions, nowhere in the definition of corporate personhood does it assign emotions to a legal non-natural person. A corporate personhood has some rights and responsibilities of a natural person. When I talk about corporate greed, I'm not talking about the corporation itself, I'm talking about the people behind it. Greed is considered an emotion.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
The new OGL they tried to force on 3PP's was such an obvious trap that it seems screamingly obvious that it was an attempt to destroy them.

So, this doesn't hang together well at all.

Traps work due to the element of surprise. Traps are easily avoided if they are "screamingly obvious". If I put up an electric fence with signs saying, "WARNING: 40,000 VOLTS!" that fence is not a trap, it is a hazard.

Putting up something harmful, but screamingly obvious, is not an attempt to destroy, it is an attempt to scare away.
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
Magic like card game will always be a niche game. even at 1 billion revenue.
Except that because Magic is part of Hasbro we know that not only is it more popular than conventional games, it is exceptionally more popular than conventional games. None of the conventional games is making as much as D&D.
 

Cergorach

The Laughing One
None of the conventional games is making as much as D&D.
Monopoly might be making significantly more then D&D. Some other properties might also fall into that category, depending on how you count those properties...

If you add license fees for D&D socks to the pile of revenue WotC makes, how would you treat a Star Wars IP? Let's say all the physical SW games, that's a LOT.
 

This feels a bit detached from the world. All companies are "greedy". Acting like WotC is special in this regard is strange. I am sure if you look at the companies from which you buy stuff in your daily life, you will find companies being much much more greedy than both WotC and Paizo.

No, what I'm doing is acknowledging reality and the world.

At the end of the day, Wizards could have grown their business more sustainably without destroying the community built up around it in search of a faster buck. They did not make that choice. Instead they made ridiculous profit projections and then looked to try and make them a reality. That's greed. Maximizing profits in the short term without thought of the cost in the long-term is exactly that.

And who cares if other companies are greedier? That doesn't suddenly excuse this. The problem we have is that whenever someone does something like this people say "Well, it has to be this way!" and just normalizes it further, rather than saying "We shouldn't have to accept this". We successfully push back against these things and then self-neuter it by excusing the behavior with "Well, they were just doing what they had to". No, they didn't. They were making profits and growing before they did this just fine. It was the desire for "too much, too quick" is what did this.

Paizo and WotC show their greed in various ways. Paizo's pay for artists and freelancers are known to be quite low in the industry. Why? Because of greed. WotC show their greed in other ways. I am not sure one is "better" than the other. Why? Because they are both companies. Granted WotC is a publicly traded one of the sort (or part of one anyway), and thus their greed might be more open and clear (which actually might not be a bad thing IMO).

This is just a whole bunch of whataboutism. Yes, Paizo can do greedy things. Who the hell cares? We're in a thread that is about Wizards.

Obviously you do yo and fight "the battle". But if what you want in life is to push back on greedy companies, there are much much much better places to spend your time than the company that makes a dragon game (cloth companies, Apple, etc.). I know you can be concerned about more than one thing in life, but man it feels so "partisan" and PF-fan like mentality.

I can do multiple things at once, amazingly enough. There are multiple companies I try not to do business with when I can because of their ethics problems. Acting like it's impossible is just sad.

Also being angry at greedy, industry-harming actions is a "PF-fan" thing? Like, I didn't make this partisan and I criticized Paizo when they did stupid s****. It was only them unionizing that got me back to them. The only people mentioning Paizo are the people who don't want to talk about what Wizards did in the first place.

So, this doesn't hang together well at all.

Traps work due to the element of surprise. Traps are easily avoided if they are "screamingly obvious". If I put up an electric fence with signs saying, "WARNING: 40,000 VOLTS!" that fence is not a trap, it is a hazard.

I mean, colloquially a trap can just be a decision where you are harmed by both outcomes despite it seeming benign, which is what I assume the intent was.

Putting up something harmful, but screamingly obvious, is not an attempt to destroy, it is an attempt to scare away.

Wizards didn't put up a warning sign, though. I mean, I thought we were getting away from overwrought metaphors, but the area they are putting the sign up on was occupied safely by a bunch of people. The OGL wasn't a sign, it was an ultimatum to people to either get the hell out or abide by new, very strict and disadvantageous rules.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Some sources say that currently 25% of WotC revenue is from digital sales. If that holds true for Magic, only ~$250k of that $1B+ in Magic revenue is from Magic Arena (and a few other digital products). Hearthstone does something like $670k/year, so there is plenty of growth on the digital side of Magic. Getting to $1.5B doesn't seem impossible for magic, maybe not in 2023, but it certainly could happen. As for the physical side of things, on many levels Magic had a LOT of issues in 2022 and still it had ~€750k in revenue from physical goods.

And that's just from physical cards and a digital version of said card game. Now imagine other types of computer games, movies, TV series, etc. Depending on how WotC exploits that, that could be license income or they could do it themselves... But it seems they tried setting that up and promptly pulled the rug from most of it.

If you had said 30 years ago that Magic would generate $1B in revenue, I would have probably hurt myself from laughing so loud! If you had asked me how mainstream D&D would become, I wouldn't have imagined this level of mainstream. Computer games would never become mainstream, now look at it!

I'm confused on the 25% of $1bil being $250k in your post. Is the bil, the k, the 25%, or my reading off?
 

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