D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[EthanSental]

I had forgotten how much alignment was used/mentioned in 1e and their settings. Probably not going to be used much in the new dmg GH world building chapter, other than maybe how to use it for an example, and I’m fine with it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, but they are not insensitive charactertures.

And the Radiant Citadel itself is not based on anything remotely real world, so it matters not if it is a utopia or a dystopia.

It can potentially matter if it makes logical sense though, which has definitely been questioned.

 

[Mecheon]

It can potentially matter if it makes logical sense though, which has definitely been questioned.

If we're going to comment on setting elements making logical sense, I'm going to take an absolute golfclub to Ravenloft, Kara Tur and Maztica well before I get to any of the new stuff they're likely going to be adding to Greyhawk. Logical sense is not in this game's history for worldbuilding from the get-go.

KT and Maztica don't even work as part of the same world as the rest of FR (ironically would work better as part of Greyhawk, as KT was designed for) and this is before we even get to the boulder sized chip on my shoulder about Planescape

 

[Parmandur]

One thing this reminds me is how gorgeously laid out that box set was. Love the stylized drop caps they used throughout the book.

Horned Society was cool but I also never felt like they needed a “country”. I always felt they functioned so much better as a cult.

Fair idea, but the idea if a country where the government is an evil cult allows for aome interesting adventure potential, and again helps co tain the Chaos of Iuz.

I had forgotten how much alignment was used/mentioned in 1e and their settings. Probably not going to be used much in the new dmg GH world building chapter, other than maybe how to use it for an example, and I’m fine with it.

Yeah, pretty certainly not.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The thing about orcs in Greyhawk, or anywhere else: You can still have orc populations that don't get along with neighboring human/elf/dwarf/etc. populations without them being definitionally evil - just give historical/political reasons for the conflict, like generations-long competition over resources and the like. You can also still have purely evil orcs, just don't make them the only orcs the setting has to offer.

That's really all there is to it...

Do you think they're likely to give such reasons? The conversation has been all about how bare bones this treatment is likely to be. Logical reasons take time and space to breathe, and WotC of late rarely wants to take that space, it seems.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Okay, let me fix it for you.

Here was the original text for Orcs from the wiki: Orcs believe that in order to survive they must expand their territory, and so they are constantly involved in wars against many enemies: humans, elves, dwarves, goblins, and other orc tribes

Now, I shall magically create a place in the setting for good orcs. Ready? "Some Orcs believe that in order to survive they must expand their territory, and so they are constantly involved in wars against many enemies: humans, elves, dwarves, goblins, and other orc tribes. Others have made treaties with their neighbors, and lay claim to the wild lands those neighbors cannot conquer"

Tadah! Now, here's the real question... did I even need to do that? Could I, in the course of making examples of the land, have just... named two orc tribes, one set on conquest the other with a trade deal?

What about the goliaths? Well... they are related to Giants, they are giant-kin. The giants exist in Oerth. The Firbolgs are already there, and you just need to... have the same lore for Goliaths that they currently have. Mainly: Towering over most folk, Goliaths are distant descendants of giants. Each Goliath bears the blessings of the first giants—blessings that
manifest in various supernatural boons, including the ability to quickly grow and temporarily approach the height of the Goliaths’ gigantic kin. That completely works, no need to make them Half-Giants, they aren't half-giants. Where do they live, well, this is what it says about Giants: Giants are found throughout the Flanaess, though the vast majority of giant populations are concentrated in and near the Yatil-Hellfurnaces and Corusk-Rakers mountain chains. So... same thing works, right?

Why did no one see them before? Well, both of those mountain ranges are in the distant, far-off lands. Or maybe they migrated here from across the desert or the ocean.

The issue isn't "DMs are going to ban these things at their table because WoTC didn't properly place them in the DMG example chapter on how to build a campaign setting and ruined the sanctity of Greyhawk!" The real issue is people who are going to demand THEIR version of greyhawk remains unchanged from the 80's because anything made by WoTC is stupid and dumb and ruins their perfect setting.

That's a lot of words just to be condescending to people who disagree with you.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

races

Are rules, not creative content, and have changed fundamentally since 1st edition. There are no class restrictions, ability score modifications, preferred alignments, gender differences, oh, and they are not called races any more. This is rule changes, not creative content.

 

[TiQuinn]

helps co tain the Chaos of Iuz.

I think that’s the other thing - for me, there was nothing to distinguish the Horned Society from Iuz. They both peddled in summoning demons, both had their evil armies, both had cults, etc.

 

[TiQuinn]

Do you think they're likely to give such reasons? The conversation has been all about how bare bones this treatment is likely to be. Logical reasons take time and space to breathe, and WotC of late rarely wants to take that space, it seems.

Except when they make a wonderful product like VRGtR.

As I said, some folks aren’t happy unless their settings are preserved in amber.

 

[AstroCat]

Are rules, not creative content, and have changed fundamentally since 1st edition. There are no class restrictions, ability score modifications, preferred alignments, gender differences, oh, and they are not called races any more. This is rule changes, not creative content.

There is a viable way to keep the restrictions and allowances within in certain settings while not breaking the current game mechanics. We do it all the time, I've run many 5e GH games and it totally works. Heck there are whole communities and tons of content that do just that. 5e D&D but in Greyhawk with all the sensibilities and flavor of the setting intact but with 5e mechanics. It totally works, it's already working for years. Just do a quick search for Greyhawk 5e and you will find a TON of great content.