D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Chaosmancer]

Tell me more of these psychic goblins. I know goblins, nilbogs, kobolds, svarts (White Dwarf), xvarts (Fiend Folio), hobgoblins and norkers. But I don't think I know these psychic goblins.

Are they from a GH product?

They were an old DnD thing, 1st or 2nd edition. Same as the Thought Eater I mentioned. No idea if they were "specific" to GH

 

[Chaosmancer]

They're from the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook (not sure if they were in the 3.0 Psionics Handbook before it – I think so but can't be hedgehogged to check). Basically they're goblin mutants with blue-tinged skin and a predeliction for psionics.

They were 3.5? I would have sworn they were in the 2e books at least. My bad.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Hey yo!

"Slave Vats of the Yuan-ti" was part of the Mere of Dead Men series so it was set in the Forgotten Realms but Imma big Greyhawk fan so yes, GH's gonzo Barrier Peak vibe leaked through when I wrote it. It can certainly be set there. In my home campaign I've placed it in the Hool Marshes.

Ah, we were in the Mere of Dead men, I just thought the DM was altering the adventure, since he did that a lot (I assume the parasitic hellbees in the attic were not original)

 

[Chaosmancer]

Right, but I am looking at the species as an archetype, suitable for many settings; that of the artificial life form, the "Data" if you will. That archetype does not need the forged for war story, and indeed is limited by it. And there is no official alternative to warforged for that archetype, short of the recently introduced autognome, whose name and origin also have problems.

This is why I use a variety of 3pp expressions of the concept, and would definitely change the name if I wanted to use warforged or autognome.

I am not sure if you are trying to make an argument, or just stating the most bland fact ever.

I made a character who was mechanically an autognome. I called them a Living Doll, because they were made by a crazy, immortal and creepy Toymaker instead of by any gnomes. Yeah, if you really want to get obsessive about the details, a warforged that wasn't forged for war would need a different name. And in Star Trek they called "Elves" Vulcans.

The point isn't "everything will exactly match up one to one with no errors". The point is the mechanical species (which in the rules is called warforged) can be easily put into any setting, because "magical construct people" is a rather common fantasy trope that needs little extra explanation. IF a DM wanted to insist to change the name to Cookieforged because they were all originally designed to be chefs in an endless cookie factory... fine, but that doesn't prevent the use of the species mechanics in the setting.

 

[Parmandur]

Just to circle back again to the foundational question from the theead title: we are 100 pages of shooting the breeze about Greyhawk, much of itnquite passionate.

To a publisher, passion is a gold mine.

 

[Staffan]

They were 3.5? I would have sworn they were in the 2e books at least. My bad.

I don't recall them being in 2e, and I know they definitely weren't in the Complete Psionics Handbook, but there was a lot of stuff published for 2e so they might very well have been around then too.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It is perfectly fine. I get the point though. I am happy to have players make choices that will fit the campaign or world that I am using; however, if someone wants to play a half-kobold, half-purple unicorn, then I wish them well and they can find a group that will make them happy.

It is not elitist. I also want to have fun as a DM and some styles just do not work well together.

You know, it is always amazing to me that when people complain about players who want to play quirky characters, they never say something like "a pixie artificer who likes explosions" which is a character I could imagine a player actually coming up with. It is a Half-Grung half-sentient cheese sandwhich half-fiend with the powers of a god who fist-fought Chthullu!!

And it is always either the halfs or the sentient inanimate objects. No one ever seems to go "however, if a player wanted to play a Grue they would need to find a different group"

I just find it a really odd pattern.

 

[Parmandur]

You know, it is always amazing to me that when people complain about players who want to play quirky characters, they never say something like "a pixie artificer who likes explosions" which is a character I could imagine a player actually coming up with. It is a Half-Grung half-sentient cheese sandwhich half-fiend with the powers of a god who fist-fought Chthullu!!

And it is always either the halfs or the sentient inanimate objects. No one ever seems to go "however, if a player wanted to play a Grue they would need to find a different group"

I just find it a really odd pattern.

Yeah, I mean, here people are just talking about Hella Basic options like Orcs, Tieflings or Dragonborn. Not things that stand out in modern generic Fantasy Settings.

 

[JEB]

So they did the only thing they could do: rewrite the domain from the ground up.

Well, they did and they didn't. Some version of Urik von Kharkov absolutely existed at one point in 5e Valachan, he was just overthrown by Chakuna as part of her backstory. Considering the designer is on record as saying they wrote up 5e Valachan as a continuation (not a retcon) of the original domain, we can presume that Valachan was the 2e/3e version until Chakuna's takeover.

This is, of course, something they could have done with the other domains that were radically overhauled, like Dementlieu, but opted not to. (Though as mentioned, there are some Easter eggs that could suggest this was the intention, or at least had been at some point during design phases.)

 

[Parmandur]

Well, they did and they didn't. Some version of Urik von Kharkov absolutely existed at one point in 5e Valachan, he was just overthrown by Chakuna as part of her backstory. Considering the designer is on record as saying they wrote up 5e Valachan as a continuation (not a retcon) of the original domain, we can presume that Valachan was the 2e/3e version until Chakuna's takeover.

This is, of course, something they could have done with the other domains that were radically overhauled, like Dementlieu, but opted not to. (Though as mentioned, there are some Easter eggs that could suggest this was the intention, or at least had been at some point during design phases.)

The Van Richten's presentation of the Domains also makes their dream-like unreality a central feature.