• The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!

D&D 1E [For ORCUS] Convince me that I can "do 1E" with 4E

Reynard

Legend
Supporter
In a couple of threads now, Orcus of Necromancer Games has made it clear that he and others plan to make sure 4E supports "old school" gaming -- dungeon crawls, gygaxian adventure and the like.

So, Orcus, given that 4E seems -- based on what we've seen, which is admittedly more fluff than crunch -- to have removed or reduced such tried and true tropes as per-day resource management, save or die effects and slow character adavancement, how do you plan on providing a "1st Edition Feel" with 1E.

Frankly, the tone and style of 1E adventures is what I love about D&D, and so far 4E has given me the feeling that I am being left behind in favor of younger, faster, sexier gamers that prefer a faster, sexier game where players rule. But I want to like the newest edition of D&D. i love D&D. I grew up on it. it is part of my history and my identity.

So, please, convince me you and others like you will make me want to play 4E.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Crothian

First Post
I can get the 1e feel in Whitewolf and Gurps game so I have to believe that Necromancer can easily get the 1e feel from the new version of D&D
 

bowbe

First Post
1ed Feel is 90% a state of mind.

I am reminded of a game session Jim Corulla and I sat in on late late at night during the last Gen Con in Milwaukee, with Clark Peterson, Bill Webb, Monte Cook, Steven Wieck, Stewart Wieck, Rich Thomas, Joe Carriker, and Monte Cook. Most people forget that Joe, Jim, and I were there. I sat next to Monte, Clark sat across from us and Bill ran the adventure.

As the adventure progressed into an ancient temple of Set, Bill pulled out all sorts of 1ed goodness, from poisonous hypnotic inducing plants to spiked pit traps, and giant serpents.

Monte and Clark traded barbs and playful wise-cracks across the table during the course of the adventure on how "We don't need a DMG, he's sitting next to Case." coming from Clark... and Monte replying from time to time with things like "You wouldn't last five minutes in one of my games." after Clark's paladin got us into one bloody combat after another.

Clark played a paladin clark style, which is to say very 1ed. Honorable, noble, lawful stupid, and fearless of death. Monte played an elf sorcerer who wielded a two bladed sword. Their play styles were indeed different, and anyone who was paying attention could note the First edition Feel of the paladin vs. the purely 3ed style influence of the double sword wielding elf mage blade.

The point of it all is they both have excellent taste in gaming, both have focused their perspective creative enterprises towards the aspects of 3ed that they really really liked. As for Bill? He did his damndest to kill every one of us, and congratulated everyone in grand fashion when he didn't, and everyone had a blast because none of us knew if we were going to make it out of the adventure alive!

I guess my point is, I've been gaming for 26 odd years now. I've played me some boot hill, top secret, gamma world, james bond, star frontiers, twilight 2000 and deadlands, Call of Cthulhu, Champions, and Basic D&D, AD&D, 2eAD&D and 3.0-3.5 edition D&D. In the end we always end up going back to D&D in some form or another. Why? The elusive first edition feel.

What is it? That sense of wonder and peril. That sense of facing challenges both obscure and unknown. Taking characters out of their comfort zone where all the min-maxes and stat stackers are in just as much jeapordy as the guys who roll 3d6 for stats and play what is written on the paper. Rappan Athuk did that. Crucible of Freya did that, and so did a host of other Necro products (some of which I had the honor of writing on).

I know I've said before. Just because the dev team appears to be gearing towards the "sexy" wu shu anime style of adventure design doesn't mean thats the only way a game can be run, witten or indeed the way it needs to be played. Thats their thing and they are bubbly super zealously excited about it. Good for them, they should be.

Remember though, unless your on the dev team it doesn't matter a lick what they say about "what the game is going to be like". Thats the way their game is going to be, and thats how they are going to present their rules. I don't necessarily have to interpret them that way nor does anyone else. Rules are rules. What you do with them is up to you.

Its what you do when you get it to your table and make everyone roll initiative that matters.

None of the Necro products I have worked on have followed the "delve" format of adventure design. Most of them recognize the inconsistancies of the CR model and geared the encounters according to OUR take on the CR system, not on the RAW.

Not every product Necro has done has been a pure dungeon crawl. First Edition feel doesn't need to follow those rules. It follows its own, and those rules are more about a spirit and way of doing things that are unique to those folks who "get it", and completely lost on those who do not.

I have no doubt that we will be able to easily use the new mechanics and find unique ways to explore and yes indeed exploit those rules rather quickly to retain that first edition feel that folks who are fans of our past products so greatly enjoy.

Thats my 2 coppers.

Case
 


Reynard

Legend
Supporter
KarinsDad said:
How can he do this yet?

He does not have the rules. This request sounds fairly premature.

Then isn't the assertion that Necromancer can provide that also premature?
 


FunkBGR

Explorer
Reynard -

Re-read Bowbe

" 1ed Feel is 90% a state of mind. "

Bam, done.

If anybody can do it, it's Clark Peterson 'n Necromancer Games.
 


Necromancer Games is my favorite d20 company, and I think they have some great products: Rappan Athuk, Tomb of Abysthor, and Demons & Devils are my favorites, but I also liked Lost of City of Barakus, Coils of Set, and Necropolis. I also love their Wilderlands and Judges Guild line.

However, I'm of the opinion that the feel and style of your game is highly infleunced by the system you're using: the system matters. I know it's very common to hear stuff like "the system doesn't matter, you can do such-and-such feel with any system." I concede that it's possible to inject a little "1E feel" into any system, but for my money, the closer your system is to 1E rules, the easier it is to get 1E feel. The more your system deviates from 1E rules, the more trouble it is to force that 1E feel into it (Clark's joke about injecting NG's "big 1E feel" it into 4E -- whether 4E is willing or not -- is apropos).

I appreciate that some people don't like 1E rules, or prefer a different rule-set, and I'm sure that's the market-segment that NG is after: people who prefer the latest rules while still enjoying 1E themes and approaches. I wish them success with that approach.

But for me it comes down to this: you want the ultimate in 1E feel? Play 1E.
 

Remove ads

Top