D&D (2024) Do you think they will add more races to PHB2024 to make up for dropping other stuff?

[doctorbadwolf]

Also, regarding the Origins UA Mixed Species argument, the "One Drop Rule" accusation is inapplicable. It's not even a good metaphor. You don't have to like the rule, but don't misprepresent it with real world racist accusations. The One Drop Rule said if you had one drop of something, you are only that thing. That is not what is happening.

It is exactly what’s happening. Even if you look like the other parent ancestry, you are “actually” the other. No matter what, there is one ancestry that is your “real” ancestry.

If a character was born of an Elf and a Half-elf parent, they are going to have the stats of either an Elf or a Half-elf, not a mix of both.

Which erases actually mixed ancestry.

It's not racist to say the player has to pick one Species to represent their Species Abilities. Using that same logic, it's not racist for the child of an Elf and Human to have the species abilities of one of the parents. It is the same player choice for if the parents were an Elf and a Half-elf (unless the DM limited it further, like in Eberron.)

One could argue that Eberron's take on Khoravar half-elves is more problematic because in Eberron, all Half-elves breed true, erasing their human and elven origins. But we need to stop going down both those rabbit holes.

Half-elves in Eberron are predominantly born of half-elf parents, but it’s far from the only way half-elves exist in the setting, and nothing in Eberron stops you from using human or elf stats and saying “I’ve got a great grandparent who was Khoravar, but I don’t especially identify with that.” Or whatever.

Unless it is Eberron and the DM says you can't be an elf or a human, you can only be a half-elf, because half-elves breed true. But that is even closer to the One Drop Rule than the other position

Again, this is not a thing in Eberron.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

One could argue that Eberron's take on Khoravar half-elves is more problematic because in Eberron, all Half-elves breed true, erasing their human and elven origins.

Khoravar "breeding true" in Eberron just means that the child of two Khoravar is likely to also be a Khoravar - they are a population that is capable of sustaining their numbers without needing a constant influx of new first-generation Khoravar to do so. It says nothing about the child of a Khoravar and an elf automatically being a Khoravar because it somehow erases their higher percentage of elven blood.

By contrast, the "pick whether your Khoravar is really a human or an elf" methodology suggests that Khoravar cannot sustain themselves, and are inevitably pulled back to being exclusively one of their "parent species" or the other. The child of a Khoravar that uses elven stats and an elf would implicitly be an elf, as would the child of two Khoravar that both use elven stats, because in basically every case, the product of two elf statblocks is also going to be an elf statblock.

Again, I have no issue with there being a range of options between "fully species X" and "fully species Y" to choose from, there just needs to be some sort of option existing in between X and Y, because without one the world-building implications of "Pick a Parent" are that mixed-ancestry population blocks cannot exist for any meaningful length of time without largely dissolving back into their constituent parent ancestries unless they have what is fundamentally a eugenics program to support them.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

That is not the narrative being portrayed. The character is more than the species abilities, and that cannot be ignored. The character is both species and that may be apparent in their appearance and background or whatever the player wants. But someone else reminded me recently of the "game" aspect of the game. Essentially, you still have to make the same choice as everyone else. Pick the Species stat block you want to use for the game.

In current D&D, if your character's parents are an elf and a half-elf, you still have to pick one species to represent your character's in-game stats. (Unless it is Eberron and the DM says you can't be an elf or a human, you can only be a half-elf, because half-elves breed true. But that is even closer to the One Drop Rule than the other position).

The rules for an elf/half-elf hybrid character should also apply for the progeny of an elf and a human.

What you are describing is exactly the one-drop rule.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

I wish more players of mixed heritage had chimed in, as I value their input on the "soft erasure" of the half-elf and half-orc more, since it sounds like the changes were done for those players' benefit. I think we had two, one on either side of the argument? (Correct me if I missed some)

The changes were done because of this:

1) People are mad at us. (Racial politics)
2) We don't understand what people are mad about (Clueless executives)
3) We have to do something (Avoid bad press)
4) This is something. (Pointless action)

 

[MonsterEnvy]

The changes were done because of this:

1) People are mad at us. (Racial politics)
2) We don't understand what people are mad about (Clueless executives)
3) We have to do something (Avoid bad press)
4) This is something. (Pointless action)

Nah. This is the proper thing to do. But a bunch of people here can’t wrap their heads around mechanics not being the entirety of a character.

 

[Remathilis]

Nah. This is the proper thing to do. But a bunch of people here can’t wrap their heads around mechanics not being the entirety of a character.

D&D players roughly divide into two camps:

1. Everything in the game must have a unique mechanical expression. If it doesn't, it doesn't exist.

2. Rules and Lore can disconnect and things can be refluffed into other things.

The first group is the one who is always looking for new options, like a dedicated Psionics system, katanas on the weapon table, and a witch class or subclass. The latter is fine making a crossbow into a gun or a bard is a warlord. It's not an either/or but a slide scale. Anyway, I think this is coming down to those who feel hybrids should have unique mechanics vs those who are willing to refluff. I admit I usually fall into the first group but with the sheer volume of hybrid species (or the potential problems with a build a bear system) I'm going to accept a refluff system.

 

[Vaalingrade]

What I can't 'wrap my head around' is letting the company that love love loves slavery as backstory get away with an insensitive half-measure to yet another of their racial problems.

WotC's treatment and understanding of race doesn't need a bandaid, it needs a colonic irrigation to get rid of all the crap.

 

[Corinnguard]

Those all also suck.

All species mechanics suck, LOL. You can't condense an entire peoples genetic and societal make-up down into four simple game mechanics that have little to no effect on gameplay and have it matter. Especially not when your JOB give you 20 entire levels worth of mechanics.

True, your class and subclass does provide your character with 20 levels worth of game mechanics. You got me wondering if Level Up's Origin mechanics are less sucky than 5e's. Heritage covers a given people's 'genetics' while giving you what are essentially two 'feats' at 1st and 10th level. Then there is Culture which covers the make-up for a particular society, and the culture you are a part of doesn't have to be tied to your Heritage.

 

[Micah Sweet]

True, your class and subclass does provide your character with 20 levels worth of game mechanics. You got me wondering if Level Up's Origin mechanics are less sucky than 5e's. Heritage covers a given people's 'genetics' while giving you what are essentially two 'feats' at 1st and 10th level. Then there is Culture which covers the make-up for a particular society, and the culture you are a part of doesn't have to be tied to your Heritage.

Yup. It's definitely better.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

What I can't 'wrap my head around' is letting the company that love love loves slavery as backstory get away with an insensitive half-measure to yet another of their racial problems.

WotC's treatment and understanding of race doesn't need a bandaid, it needs a colonic irrigation to get rid of all the crap.

Feels like you are making things up at this point. The Hadozee never loved Slavery in the recent Spelljammer box