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D&D 5E Do we need a Fifth Edition Revival (5ER)?

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I don't know. My 5e players (who don't spend much time online like I do) certainly complain that ...
1) they don't get enough magic item rewards
2) don't get to high levels (campaigns retire around 10th level)
3) feel that encounters are way too easy (or have TPKs - very little "happy medium")
4) don't get enough "cool things to do"
Your #3 there is, ironically, a direct result of the balanced encounter math that in a different post you say you want.

If the encounter math was less finely-tuned there'd be a much wider "window" between cakewalk and TPK. Even if unintentionally, he TSR versions got this right. The WotC designers tried to tighten up the math and that - along with their putting the game on a steeper power curve - has greatly narrowed that window...again, quite possibly unintentionally.
In fact, my wife was just complaining this morning while playing BG3 that she doesn't get to have "cool encounters" in D&D like she does in BG3. That's largely because there's no guidance for interacting with the environment, bonuses for height or flanking (aside from Advantage). "I wish I got cool magic arrows - they're all over the place in this game!" (No guidance for that, either, in 5e.)
Exploding barrels of oil? Creating slippery surfaces? Swinging on ropes or chandeliers? Pushing a boulder into a swarm of goblins?
None of this stuff is in 5e. The game would be improved if the options were there, in my opinion.
To a point, yes, but it's easy to overdo this stuff. More useful in general would be to be able to use other modifiers than just adv-disadv. to suit a given situation.
 

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
It does seem likely that there will be an increasing focus on digital D&D via their own portal, and they are perhaps opening the door on micro-transactions. For Hasbro, I think the D&D future is digital and subscription based, regardless of what happens mechanically. I think there's room for a thriving 5E ecosystem to exist outside that.
Agreed; but a thriving D&D ecosystem. All editions, not just 5e.

I mean, if WotC goes all-digital etc. over the next ten years there'll also be room (and, probably, demand) for a thriving 5.5e ecosystem outside of that as well.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
The entire reason why Dungeons & Dragons 5E has been in a "Golden Age" is because it has expanded itself beyond its foundational playerbase with millions of players who are completely unconcerned with all the crap that gets us EN Worlders all bent out of shape-- they don't care or know how Hasbro is earning money from their game, do not care about the Open Gaming License (and probably wouldn't even know what 'OGL' stood for if you asked them), and wouldn't be able to define, explain or identify anything related to the so-called 'OSR movement'.

The people who actually care about any of those things are precisely the people who would have been playing D&D 5E this entire time (or at least been knowledgeable of it) regardless of any Critical Role / Actual Play / Stranger Things / Big Bang Theory / pop culture signposting that has occurred to MAKE this era a so-called "Golden Age". And on top of that... the people who might bemoan the idea of this "Golden Age" ending are the exact people for whom their participation did not trigger it. They are complaining about something ending that they didn't actually have a hand in.

We EN Worlders did not create this Golden Age of TTRPGs. We were already going to be here regardless. The Golden Age occurred in spite of us.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Yep, this is the exact concern. People may think I'm fear mongering if I point to subscription fees, but surely this is the end goal. Perhaps it will start with saying, "It costs money to maintain your account and give you access to these books. Starting next month, we are introducing a small fee..."
I'm more thinking it'll end up where it's free to have an account but doing pretty much anything with it will cost per use unless you subscribe.

Use the character generator? Small fee per use, please.
DM a game using the VTT? Small fee per session, please.
Import houserules? Small fee, please.

But if you subscribe, of course, all these features and more will be included.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Well, the original claim from Riggs is that the "golden age" of 5E is dead, not 5E itself.
Riggs' claim is wrong at best. Laughably uninformed is a more accurate description.
But I don't want the "revival" language to distract from the heart of the article, which is a 5E future driven by fans and 3PP rather than Hasbro.
Okay. People have been talking about this exact thing in the context of 5E for about a year now. "5E by fans, for fans" and all that. Check out some of Sly Flourish's videos and writing on the topic. With 5E in the CC-BY license, it will never go away. But inevitably players will move on.
 

bedir than

Full Moon Storyteller
Riggs' claim is wrong at best. Laughably uninformed is a more accurate description.

Okay. People have been talking about this exact thing in the context of 5E for about a year now. "5E by fans, for fans" and all that. Check out some of Sly Flourish's videos and writing on the topic. With 5E in the CC-BY license, it will never go away. But inevitably players will move on.
MT has a full PHB via the CC-BY
 

The entire reason why Dungeons & Dragons 5E has been in a "Golden Age" is because it has expanded itself beyond its foundational playerbase with millions of players who are completely unconcerned with all the crap that gets us EN Worlders all bent out of shape-- they don't care or know how Hasbro is earning money from their game, do not care about the Open Gaming License (and probably wouldn't even know what 'OGL' stood for if you asked them), and wouldn't be able to define, explain or identify anything related to the so-called 'OSR movement'.
Many of them were not born, when the OGL was created...
 

Clint_L

Legend
Yep, this is the exact concern. People may think I'm fear mongering if I point to subscription fees, but surely this is the end goal. Perhaps it will start with saying, "It costs money to maintain your account and give you access to these books. Starting next month, we are introducing a small fee..."
Subscription services are standard, partly because they are way cheaper and partly because they are way more convenient than analogue systems. And by standard, I mean that the overwhelming majority of folks, young folks in particular but the entire population overall, get most of their entertainment from subscription services (for example, in the music industry cds, vinyl and even digital downloads like from iTunes are only about 10-20% of sales, mostly to old people and collectors; almost all music is currently consumed through subscriptions).

I recently got rid of thousands of CDs, books, and DVDs that represented many tens of thousands of dollars of investment and tons of storage space (mostly, I just donated them). I have Netflix, Apple, Crave, and Amazon Prime subscriptions, and a Kindle. My entertaining spending is a fraction of what it used to be, for way more content that I can access anywhere, anytime, and I'm wasting far fewer dead trees and plastics.

Yeah, technically these things are only rented or contracted. That's a feature, not a flaw. I don't need a bunch of stuff cluttering up my living spaces, and if someone pulls the plug on something ten years from now, chances are I already cancelled my subscription or moved on to the next thing. If I do need a physical copy of whatever, I can still get them. My kid collects vinyl records. I collect miniatures. The difference is that I'm not required to shell out for wasteful physical copies of things that work better in digital anyway, and I'm not stuck with them when I'm done.

I was just perusing the Book of Many Things. I got it through DDB for (I think) $24.99 as a pre-sale. I just saw the physical version in my FLGS for over $100. It's true that my digital one doesn't have the cards, but I bought a beautiful set years ago from an artist on Etsy for $25, helping to employ a 3PP.

So on that one product, I basically saved as much as my next year's master tier subscription to DnDBeyond. Which also currently supports more than a dozen other players, giving them access to my Book of Many Things, and all my other WotC (and several 3PP products) besides. At home, any time they need them.

Digital subscriptions are popular because they are way better value than buying physical stuff, not to mention more convenient and less wasteful. But if you want the physical stuff, then that option is still there. It's the best of both worlds.
 
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Nebulous

Legend
I was just perusing the Book of Many Things. I got it through DDB for (I think) $24.99 as a pre-sale. I just saw the physical version in my FLGS for over $100. It's true that my digital one doesn't have the cards, but I bought a beautiful set years ago from an artist on Etsy for $25, helping to employ a 3PP.
I got it for $30 through Roll20, and it had the 22 card deck installed as digital cards, and I figured out how to add extra cards from the Deck of Many More Things, so now I have a usable deck of around 50 cards that can be pulled by players.
 

I don't know. My 5e players (who don't spend much time online like I do) certainly complain that ...
1) they don't get enough magic item rewards
2) don't get to high levels (campaigns retire around 10th level)
3) feel that encounters are way too easy (or have TPKs - very little "happy medium")
4) don't get enough "cool things to do"

In fact, my wife was just complaining this morning while playing BG3 that she doesn't get to have "cool encounters" in D&D like she does in BG3. That's largely because there's no guidance for interacting with the environment, bonuses for height or flanking (aside from Advantage). "I wish I got cool magic arrows - they're all over the place in this game!" (No guidance for that, either, in 5e.)
Exploding barrels of oil? Creating slippery surfaces? Swinging on ropes or chandeliers? Pushing a boulder into a swarm of goblins?
None of this stuff is in 5e. The game would be improved if the options were there, in my opinion.
All that exist in the game, or at least our games and I’m pretty sure we just have the core books
 

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