D&D General D&D Red Box: Who Is The Warrior?

The Dungeons & Dragons Red Box, famously illustrated by Larry Elmore in 1983, featured cover art of a warrior fighting a red dragon. The piece is an iconic part of D&D's history.

WizKids is creating a 50th Anniversary D&D miniatures set for the D&D Icons of the Realms line which includes models based on classic art from the game, such as the AD&D Player's Handbook's famous 'A Paladin In Hell' piece by David Sutherland in 1978, along with various monsters and other iconic images. The set will be available in July 2024.

Amongst the collection is Elmore's dragon-fighting warrior. This character has only ever been seen from behind, and has never been named or identified. However, WizKids’ miniature gives us our first look at them from the front. The warrior is a woman; the view from behind is identical to the original art, while the view from the front--the first time the character's face has ever been seen--is, as WizKids told ComicBook.com, "purposefully and clearly" a woman. This will be one of 10 secret rare miniatures included in the D&D Icons of the Realms: 50th Anniversary booster boxes.

The original artist, Larry Elmore, says otherwise. (Update—the linked post has since been edited).

It's a man!

Gary didn't know what he wanted, all he wanted was something simple that would jump out at you. He wanted a male warrior. If it was a woman, you would know it for I'm pretty famous for painting women.

There was never a question in all these years about the male warrior.

No one thought it was a female warrior. "Whoever thought it was a female warrior is quite crazy and do not know what they are talking about."

This is stupid. I painted it, I should know.

- Larry Elmore​

Whether or not Elmore's intent was for the character to be a man, it seems that officially she's a woman. Either way, it's an awesome miniature. And for those who love the art, you can buy a print from Larry Elmore's official website.

 

[Queer Venger]

That’s not what I’m asking so this is a straw man fallacy. We are not discussing “all or nothing” representation throughout the industry.

We are discussing this particular instance.

As for the mini itself I don’t care what it is, I wouldn’t buy it either way.

As for the issue of representation of women, let’s ask the women.

Straw Man fallacy??
Im not here to debate you.
Whether its here or there, representation matters 100%
If you need to ask women Im sure you know women in your life you can ask.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

That is not what it is about at all.

Lucky we have other posters here to tell us "what it is all about" in a condescending manner, hey?


I mean, let's be honest with ourselves. It is a painting of a man. Elmore knew he was painting a man, it clearly looks like a man's body. It was never anything but.

But now they've decided "it was a woman after all, aren't your EXPECTATIONS SUBVERTED? Don't you feel REPRESENTED?""

It's textbook pandering from a corporation that is still hoping you have forgotten all its recent hijinx.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

We know the original art was a man because Elmore had a very distinctive style in which he drew women. And that is not one of his women. Aleena, Goldmoon, Illyana Penhaligon (the Aleena's sister art), Laurana and the rest all had the same body. And often the face. Fantasy artists still joke about the Elmore chin.

Issue isn't the mini it's the marketing. It's the 50th anniversary. All the other miniatures are faithful recreations. Except the efreet because you can't have a damsel in distress anymore. This particular piece of art is targeted towards the grogs the ones that bought the basic set all those years ago. If you change what they are expecting they're not going to want to buy it. It doesn't hold the same attachment for people who got into the game later they've got their own art that inspired them. Whoever made the change made the change because they wanted it not because the customers did.

And worse there are dozens of iconic D&D females that you could have used. Morgan Ironwolf. Alias of the Azure Bonds. Lidda. Imoen. Glasya. I pay good money for a Morgan figure. We are consumers give us the stuff that we want to consume. You'll make a lot more money that way

There's no feather in the hair so its definitely not an Elmore woman.

 

[bmfrosty]

But if the artist and everyone who saw it, understood it was a man, the point is, there wasn't this longstanding mystery around the sex of the figure

It's just a piece of art. It's not like Elmore published this piece with a picture of a warrior with long hair and a skirt, or did he?

I'm pretty sure for the majority of people what defines male or female rests between the legs, and that wasn't depicted.

 

[Nakana]

Straw Man fallacy??
Im not here to debate you.
Whether its here or there, representation matters 100%
If you need to ask women Im sure you know women in your life you can ask.

Debate or not, your response quoting my post fits the criteria of what a straw man fallacy is, do with that what you will.

Representation does matter. How a person or people are represented matters more.

If in the process of representing a person or people, their voices are simultaneously being ignored… well, that’s the most bigoted, sexist, misogynistic, racist thing that could be done.

What we don’t need is a group of men congratulating themselves on a job well done for representing women, meanwhile, women don’t actually feel represented. Nothing was accomplished in that case, except for the empty virtue of non-women as I said.

There is at least one woman in this thread who has stated she doesn’t feel represented by this action. My post was simply wondering how many more women might feel the way she does.

You take issue with this? While also arguing that representation matters?

 

[Bedrockgames]

It's just a piece of art. It's not like Elmore published this piece with a picture of a warrior with long hair and a skirt, or did he?

I'm pretty sure for the majority of people what defines male or female rests between the legs, and that wasn't depicted.

Artists study anatomy so they can convey a male form, a female form, etc. I think the reason Elmore took issue is the implication it has on his skills as an artist. No one is saying people can't fall outside of expected norms. But he was clearly drawing a man, and people interpreted it as a man. And like I said, I have no issue if they want to make it a woman. I just think it is disingenuous to act like there was a mystery around it this whole time

 

[TiQuinn]

I'm pretty sure for the majority of people what defines male or female rests between the legs, and that wasn't depicted.

Wow.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I gotta say, if D&D is going to cause controversy, this is the right type of controversy.

You mean easily avoidable controversy?

 

[CleverNickName]

It's just a piece of art. It's not like Elmore published this piece with a picture of a warrior with long hair and a skirt, or did he?

I'm pretty sure for the majority of people what defines male or female rests between the legs, and that wasn't depicted.

aaaaaand I'm done.

 

[Mistwell]

Just when you think people can't get more serious and over the top about what is ultimately a truly silly topic to begin with, someone proves you can always get more serious and over the top.

I look forward to the epic debate over whether the dragon is really a red dragon, or was an orange dragon all along.