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D&D 3E/3.5 Changing 3e to d20 rules! Am I doing this right?

Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
So I'm thinking about converting my D&D game over to include SW/WoT/d20 Modern mechanics for a more realistic feel. Have I made any glaring mistakes in interpreting/implementing these rules?

Provided everything is okey-dokey, then this list should provide anyone else with a quick-n-dirty way to incorporate the latest d20 rules innovations into their 3e D&D game!

NOTE: This version is TOTALLY REVISED (AGAIN) from the version I previously posted here.
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"This list summarizes the new rules, incorporating the latest advances in d20 game design."

VITALITY POINTS (VP)
Hit points + Quickness feats.

Description: Vitality Points (VP) represents the
creature’s ability to dodge, parry and roll with
the damage to negate any serious effect.

Effect: Vitality damage is spent energy and/or
minor bruises, cuts and scrapes. When you level,
you roll HP as normal for your class but add
them to VP (+ CON bonus).

Lost VP return at a rate of the character’s level
per hour. So a 4th level fighter would regain 4
VP/hour.

"Thug" Rule: At the DM’s discretion, creatures
without any particular importance (generally
those with 1 HD or less such as footsoldiers,
goblins or peasants) have no VP, only WP. This
allows the heroes (or villains) to "cinematically"
hack through them while easing the DM's
recordkeeping burden and speeding combat.

Undead: These creatures have only Vitality
Points, since they have no CON score. When
their Vitality is reduced to 0 or less, they are
destroyed or affected as described in the MM.

Quickness Feat: +3 Vitality Points. You may
take this feat multiple times.


WOUND POINTS (WP)
CON + Toughness feats.

Description: Wound Points (WP) represent the
creature’s ability to withstand serious bodily
injury and still survive. WP is only increased by
raising your CON or taking the Toughness feat.
You add your CON modifier to VP, not WP.

Effect: Whenever a creature takes Wound Point
damage, they must make a Fort save (DC 5 +
damage dealt) or be stunned for 2d6 rounds.

Lost WP return at 1 per day (or 2 per day on a
successful Heal skill check at DC 15).


BYPASSING VP:
Called shots (from The Quintessential Fighter or
your own house rules), coup de grace, critical
hits, death attacks, and falling damage may all
deal damage to WP directly.

A called shot, coup de grace, death attack or
sneak attack all mean you are specifically
targeting a chink in the armor or hole in the
target’s defenses. Additionally, some weapons
have penetration; these bypass some or all of an
armored target’s Damage Reduction (DR). See
the weapon penetration section for details.

Wound Points = 0: Disabled (Can move at half
speed, can perform partial actions only. Any
strenuous action causes the loss of 1 wound
point at the end of the action, changing the
creature’s status from disabled to dying, unless
the act served to increase its WP).

Wound Points = -1 to -9: Dying (Each round,
the creature loses 1 additional WP from its
injuries; it has a 10% chance to stabilize each
round. Once stabilized, it no longer loses WP).

Wound Points = -10: Dead.

Falling Damage: A character suffers 1d6 points
of damage for every 10 feet fallen. A Reflex
saving throw at DC 10 +1/10 feet allows the
damage to go against Vitality. On a failure it
goes against Wounds. A tumble check can
reduce the height of the fall as normal.

Toughness Feat: +3 Wound Points. You may
take this feat multiple times.


SUBDUAL DAMAGE
Whenever a creature takes subdual damage, he
must make a Fortitude save at DC 12 or fall
unconscious for 2d6 rounds. The subdual
damage is subtracted from VP regardless of
whether the save is successful or not.


LUCK POINTS
PC/NPC: 1d4+1 per level.
Monster: Half hit dice, rounded down.

Description: Luck Points represent the
creature’s luck in the face of extreme danger.

Effect: Luck Points are used to favorably
influence a task resolution roll (either an attack
roll, a skill check, an ability check, or a saving
throw). You must declare you are using an
Luck Point prior to rolling the d20. To
determine your Luck bonus, roll 1d6 and add
the result to the roll you declared you wanted to
influence. Once spent, Luck Points are
gone. No more than one Luck Point may be
spent on any given action.

Extra Luck Points Feat: You get 1d4+1 luck
points. You may take this feat multiple times.


DEFENSE
DEX + Reflex bonus +2 + size modifier +
cover Defense bonus + misc. other bonuses.

Description: Defense replaces AC. It represents
your skill and luck in avoiding damage. Spells
that previously provided armor, deflection or
cover bonus to AC now provide Defense bonus.

Dodge Feat: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to
Defense. You may only take this feat once.


DAMAGE REDUCTION
Equals AC bonus from armor, natural armor or
similar + any existing DR (like supernatural).

Description: Armor now provides DR (damage
reduction) against VP and WP damage. It does
not add to Defense (AC).

Light Armor:
* Silk Shirt: DR 0/-
Padded: DR 1/-
Leather: DR 1/-
Studded Leather: DR 2/-
Chain Shirt: DR 3/-

Medium Armor:
* Back & Breast: DR 1/- (add to Light Armor DR)
* Bugbear Hide: DR 3/-
* Dragonscale: DR 8/-
Hide: DR 3/-
* Hydra Hide: DR 6/-
Scale mail: DR 4/-
Chain mail: DR 4/-
Breastplate: DR 5/-

Heavy Armor:
* Bronze plate: DR 6/-
Splint mail: DR 6/-
Banded mail: DR 6/-
Half-plate: DR 7/-
Full plate: DR 8/-

Extras:
* Roundels: DR 1/- (add to DR of any armor
except full plate)

Shields: Small shields & bucklers provide a +1
cover bonus to Defense. Large shields provide a
+2 cover bonus to Defense. * Dragon scale
shields provide a +3 cover bonus to Defense.

* = taken from "The Quintessential Fighter" (by Mongoose)


CRITICAL HITS
Effect: Any critical hit bypasses Vitality and
instead deals Wound damage directly.

No weapon can have a damage multiplier
greater than x2, or a critical threat range greater
than 19-20. Any weapon better than this is
reduced to 19-20/x2 in all cases. To make up for
this reduction and reinstate the weapon’s
lethality, the following bonuses apply:

Any weapon that had a threat range of 18-20 or
better now ignores 2 points of an armored
target's DR.

Any weapon that did x3 damage now ignores 3
points of an armored target's DR.

Any weapon that did x4 damage now ignores 4
points of an armored target's DR.


WEAPON PENETRATION
Description: Crossbows are designed to pierce
armor; they have greater penetration power than
their x2 critical multiplier indicate. As a result,
such weapons bypass some or all of an armored
target's DR.

Hand Crossbows ignore 2 points of armor DR.

Light and Repeating Crossbows ignore 4 points
of armor DR.

Heavy Crossbows (including great crossbows,
seige crossbows, ballistae and similar heavy
designs) ignore 8 points of armor DR.


MASTERWORK ITEMS
Masterwork armor gives an additional +1 DR.
Masterwork shields give an additional +1 cover
bonus to Defense. Masterwork weapons give an
a +1 enhancement bonus to hit. Wicked or
serrated weapons give a +1 enhancement bonus
to damage and ignore 1 point of an armored
target’s DR in addition to any other DR
penetration powers it normally has (cost of
weapon + 300 gp).


MAGIC ITEMS
Magic armor gives an additional bonus to DR
equal to its enhancement value (+1-5). Magic
shields give an additional cover bonus to
Defense equal to its enhancement value (+1-5).
Magic weapons give an enhancement bonus to
hit and damage equal to its value (+1-5) and
ignore DR equal to their enhancement bonus
when striking armored targets.


SPELLS
All spells, unless specified otherwise, cause VP
damage.


CURE SPELLS
Cure minor wounds: Cures 1 VP or 1 WP.
Cure light wounds: Cures 1d8+1/level VP (max
+5) or 1d4+1 WP.
Cure moderate wounds: Cures 2d8+1/level VP
(max +10) or 2d4+2 WP.
Cure serious wounds: Cures 3d8+1/level VP
(max +15) or 3d4+3 WP.
Cure critical wounds: Cures 4d8+1/level VP
(max +20) or 4d4+4 WP.
Heal: Cures all VP and WP damage.

_________________________________________

Any suggestions?
 
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Darklone

Registered User
Nice

Good work mainly.

Though I dislike the defence boni... Not the system, more what you gave the different classes.
 

Victim

First Post
You mentioned called shots as doing wound damage. However, you didn't say what the called shot rules are.

Of course, I don't like called shots anyway.
 

Dr. Zoom

First Post
A couple questions and comments.

How does the CON modifier work? Does it apply to both vitality and wound points? Or just vitality? Or just wound? Sounds like Dex should apply somehow to vitality and Con to wound points.

Crits and sneak attacks and other similar attacks apply directly to wound points? Combat in general and rogues in particular just got even more deadly than they already are. Crits will routinely kill your PCs off more than you or they will like. I do not like changing the crit ranges either. You end up weakening all the 19-20 weapons. I think if you apply crits to WP, you need to alter the crit system entirely.

You say that the Armor max dex is now max defense. This will make most of the defense for most characters unusable. Is this the intent of the rule? Perhaps you should redo the max dex/def numbers to make them work better with this system.
 

Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
Victim said:
You mentioned called shots as doing wound damage. However, you didn't say what the called shot rules are.

Of course, I don't like called shots anyway.

Oops. I meant whatever House Rules you are using, such as the new Called Shots rules from The Quintesential Fighter book.
 

Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
Dr. Zoom said:
A couple questions and comments.

How does the CON modifier work? Does it apply to both vitality and wound points? Or just vitality? Or just wound? Sounds like Dex should apply somehow to vitality and Con to wound points.

Crits and sneak attacks and other similar attacks apply directly to wound points? Combat in general and rogues in particular just got even more deadly than they already are. Crits will routinely kill your PCs off more than you or they will like. I do not like changing the crit ranges either. You end up weakening all the 19-20 weapons. I think if you apply crits to WP, you need to alter the crit system entirely.

You say that the Armor max dex is now max defense. This will make most of the defense for most characters unusable. Is this the intent of the rule? Perhaps you should redo the max dex/def numbers to make them work better with this system.


VITALITY/WOUND POINTS AND ABILITY MODS:
The CON modifier is added to Vitality only, not Wound, or it would be granting a *double* bonus to Wound points (once for having a high CON, once for having a high CON modifier). CON adding to Vitality represents endurance/energy.

[EDIT] Using DEX as the modifier to VP would be a mistake as most PCs have maxed-out DEX scores. As a balancing mechanic, CON is better.

ARMOR/DEFENSE:
The intent of the rule is that armor slows down your mobility/ability to defend. Thus you should get hit more often than an unarmored (faster) target. However, the DR of the armor may negate some or all of the damage (such as full plate's DR 8/). A heavily armored knight may be hit a lot more, but he will be be protected from most damage by virtue of his body armor.

A called shot, coup de grace or death attack all mean you are specifically targeting a chink in the armor.

WEAPON DR EXEMPTIONS----
+1-+3 Mighty Longbows (including composite) and Light crossbows ignore half of an armor's DR. Hand crossbows ignore 1 point of armor DR.

Heavy Crossbows (great crossbows, seige crossbows, ballistas, etc.) and +4 Mighty longbows (including composite) ignore all armor DR due to their extreme penetration power.

SNEAK ATTACKS:
Sneak Attacks will now deal damage normally (to Vitality first, then to Wound if target is dropped past 0 VP). Sneak Attacks would be way too powerful otherwise.
 
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Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
Re: Nice

Darklone said:
Good work mainly.

Though I dislike the defence boni... Not the system, more what you gave the different classes.

The Defense bonus is very similar to WoTC's, so what would you recommend instead? It does seem low...
 

CRGreathouse

Community Supporter
Yes! Base VPs off Dexterity - it's not like anyone thinks of Dex as an important stat now. Seriously, how many people do you see walking around with a maxed-out Dexs score? (Other than monks, rogues, most fighters, bards, barbarians, and non-armoed casters, of course - and they don't count.)
 

Kaptain_Kantrip

First Post
CRGreathouse said:
Yes! Base VPs off Dexterity - it's not like anyone thinks of Dex as an important stat now. Seriously, how many people do you see walking around with a maxed-out Dexs score? (Other than monks, rogues, most fighters, bards, barbarians, and non-armoed casters, of course - and they don't count.)


LOL. Point well taken. Back to CON it is.

NOTE: I have incorporated the above changes into the original rules post. These are marked [EDIT].

Please keep the comments/critiques coming. You guys have been helpful so far, but I'm sure there are still a few bugs to be rooted out that I'm just not seeing... Please help! Thanks!
 
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WaterRabbit

Explorer
A few things I noticed:

Wound Points
In the Star Wars system, when you reach 0 Wound points, you are dying. There are no negative Wound points. I would recomend against having negative wounds.
Also, in SW, when you take wound damage, you make a Fort save at DC 10 or be stunned for 2d6 rounds. I think you should just make a Fort save or be Disabled.

Sneak Attacks
Sneak attacks become fairly powerful, especially in light of the fact that many opponents won't even have vitality points. One suggestion I have seen is to increase the crit range for sneak attacks. It depends on how easy it is to bypass the DR of armor.

Action Points
I think you should call them Luck points. Action points has more of a "how much can I do in a round" feel to them. Similiar to Force Points in SW. I think the SW mechanic is slightly cooler.

Defense Bonus by Class
Defense is generally Reflex save + 2. I think that classes that are based upon heavy armor should not get the best defense values. Fighters, for example, should just get the poor defense values. Which leads to my next comment.

Damage Reduction
Armor should just limit your dexterity (and perhaps Dodge bonuses) and not your Defense Value. Defense bonuses due to class max at +14. Which means you need a 24 or better to hit your opponent. BAB maxes at +20, which means you need a 4 or better to hit. If armor reduces Defense, then you create the situation when a high level fighter is always using Power Attack with all of his attacks and always needing a 2 or better to hit.

Shields
Shields should provide a Cover bonus to Defense.

Critical Hits
I would not allow a weapon to have a range better than 19-20 or a multiple greater than x2. Instead of increasing the range or
multiple, give those weapons Penetration, which ignores some of a target's DR.

Reputation
About as interesting as alignment. I think reputation should be reflected by a character's deeds more than their level.

Anyway, these are my comments FWIW.
 

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