D&D 4E 4e Healing as Plot Device

[Kahuna Burger]

Oh, and to the OP, I think that integrating wacky rules artifacts as actual plot background can be a good idea. (If, that is, the wacky rules artifact is something you decide is worth the effort of explaining over the effort of removing.)

 

[Lizard]

Ergo, the 6 hours sleep = Heal (the old 6th level spell) is itching many players. Because it looks like real wounds don't exist in 4e, which is stupid, from a story point of view

They don't.

Here's how it works:
a)The devs didn't want people "stuck" playing the cleric, so healing was moved to the "Leader" archetype. Furthermore, all classes gained some healing. Thus, some healing was non-magical, and for balance purposes, non-magical healing (Warlord) had to be on part with magic healing (Cleric, Paladin).
b)Either you make lethal wounds close by inspiring people, or you don't. The devs picked "don't".
c)Therefore, you don't have wounds. You have bruises, scrapes, exhaustion, fatigue, sore muscles, and a million other things, but nothing really serious. Even if a monster is described as impaling you with a spear and dragging you towards it (as I believe the Goblin Picador does), you are not actually impaled, because, if you were, no amount of shouting by the Warlord would get you un-impaled. Clearly, the spear just got your cloak or something.

Wounds don't exist -- at least during 'on stage' combat -- in 4e, unless they're lethal. Presumably, off-stage, they do exist, but if PCs are anywhere around, there is battering and there is death.

(Frankly, you can add wounds pretty easily. Give the DM a stockpile of 'wound tokens' he can toss on you when you're Bloodied. You must spend an Action Point to remove it; if you have none left, you are Wounded and suffer a -1 to all actions until you've had 1d4 days of bed rest. If you're bloodied twice in a single fight, you get another token so you're at -2, and so on. Actually, -1/two levels seems more fair, in keeping with level scaling, so a 10th level character is as wounded as a first level one, relatively speaking. This models 'take a lickin' and keep on tickin' style play w/out being 'wake up perfect'.)

 

[DreamChaser]

I apologize if my responses came off high-handed. I appear to have misinterpreted the purpose of the thread...in reviewing it again I see it was my error. I had though this was a discussion based upon explaining how healing worked in light of a perceived 4e HP = physical damage issue rather than a "let's presuppose that healing = physical damage...now let's explain it."

Again, sorry for my personal confusion.

Have fun.

DC

 

[rob626]

Lizard- That is a very clever idea! I like it. A little concerned that tracking multiple wound conditions could become cumbersome but that is more an implementation concern than a swipe at the concept.

As for "only pc's get healing over night"- I could go either way on this. On one hand, having every peasant recover from being kicked by his ox by resting a day is hard to swallow (except in the case where the god of healing makes it so ) recurring villains become a ton easier to manage. And I am a BIG fan of recurring villains.

 

[Eyada]

Are we entirely sure that there isn't a subsystem apart from HP that deals with the degenerative effects of actual physical wounds? Perhaps that scar across your face you got when you were bloodied and that gaping wound in your stomach you got when that Hobgoblin put you to -3 HP (which you only managed to survive because you were tough enough to live until the wound clotted --ie, made your "Survive Death" check and then used a Healing Surge) will have a seperate, simple subsystem to represent their impact on your character. Perhaps something akin to Lizard's proposed system.

(Frankly, you can add wounds pretty easily. Give the DM a stockpile of 'wound tokens' he can toss on you when you're Bloodied. You must spend an Action Point to remove it; if you have none left, you are Wounded and suffer a -1 to all actions until you've had 1d4 days of bed rest. If you're bloodied twice in a single fight, you get another token so you're at -2, and so on. Actually, -1/two levels seems more fair, in keeping with level scaling, so a 10th level character is as wounded as a first level one, relatively speaking. This models 'take a lickin' and keep on tickin' style play w/out being 'wake up perfect'.)

 

[Imp]

The other way I thought of for handling a wound in 4e is to dock max hp by a set amount or each significant wound the PC suffers, for a certain number of days. In keeping with a cinematic game style, I'd keep the max hp dock minimal (3 + 1/two levels? I'd have to look at how all the hit points look) and the days to recover 1d4, but if you were going grittier you could make it worse.

Getting hurt is something that a combat RPG should be able to handle.

 

[Doug McCrae]

HP loss do represent obvious physical damage. If not, it means that physical damage does not exist in D&D, because we don't have any other mechanic.

We don't have a mechanic for child birth in D&D. Does that mean it doesn't happen?

D&D's system for injury is highly abstract. Hit points have always included both a physical and non-physical element. On page 82 of the 1e DMG Gary Gygax gives a detailed account of this, explaining that the majority of a character's hit points represent not sheer physical toughness but skill, luck, a "sixth sense" and magical or divine protection.

Which admittedly leaves the problem of why Cure Light Wounds restores your luck.

 

[Warbringer]

Wounds don't exist -- at least during 'on stage' combat -- in 4e, unless they're lethal.... Give the DM a stockpile of 'wound tokens' he can toss on you when you're Bloodied.

Nice. I currently have a 'bloody' condition in our 3e game and added 'Critical' (90%-125% hps) and Dying (125%-150%). I think I'll use the wound token idea at Dying Stage.

I simply say that id you are less thna bloodied by an encounter you get all hps automatically

 

[hong]

Actually, have we seen anything to indicate Joe Commoner (or Fred the orc grunt) even gets healing surges?

 

[Kishin]

c)Therefore, you don't have wounds. You have bruises, scrapes, exhaustion, fatigue, sore muscles, and a million other things, but nothing really serious. Even if a monster is described as impaling you with a spear and dragging you towards it (as I believe the Goblin Picador does), you are not actually impaled, because, if you were, no amount of shouting by the Warlord would get you un-impaled. Clearly, the spear just got your cloak or something.

Or they're motivated and fight through the pain. I'll say right now, I don't particularly care if that sort of impalement would be lethal to a normal person. The PCs aren't normal.

Unfortunately, this whole argument appears to be devolving into another quibble over simulationism.