D&D 3E/3.5 3.5e Half-Dragon?

[Dacileva]

Well, I've looked through the threads as best I could, and I've Google'd r.g.f.d...

I've got a player making a new character. We're converting to 3.5 when it comes out.

To make his life easier, and because I didn't like the 3.0 varying damage for half-dragon breath weapons, I'm looking for the full 3.5 half-dragon stats. Not Dragon Disciple, but the Monster Manual half-dragon, including LA.

Can anyone help me with this?

--
Nik

 

[Wolf72]

my best advice would be to get a look at what they did for Savage Species ... I think they were using some 3.5 rules/ideas

 

[Dacileva]

my best advice would be to get a look at what they did for Savage Species ... I think they were using some 3.5 rules/ideas

Thank you, but I have looked at Savage Species. The only information about the half-dragon the tables in Savage Species provides is the +3 total LA, which is up 1 from the Monster Manual. In the Intermediate Monsters chapter, it uses the half-dragon/half-orc as an example, but doesn't actually include much information. It also includes something which contradicts one of the ten varieties of half-dragon (the gold breath weapon listed in SvS doesn't match the breath weapon in the MM).

Lastly, the Dragon Disciple prestige class has changed, and, since that PrClass was intended to add the Half-Dragon template over the course of 10 levels, I am wondering whether the Half-Dragon template itself has changed. This is why I am asking if anyone who has the 3.5 Monster Manual could confirm some of this information for me.

--
Nik

 

[Zaruthustran]

Well, I've looked through the threads as best I could, and I've Google'd r.g.f.d...

I've got a player making a new character. We're converting to 3.5 when it comes out.

To make his life easier, and because I didn't like the 3.0 varying damage for half-dragon breath weapons, I'm looking for the full 3.5 half-dragon stats. Not Dragon Disciple, but the Monster Manual half-dragon, including LA.

Can anyone help me with this?

--
Nik

From memory:

* LA +3
* Ability increases of +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha
* No size changes
* Darkvision and low light vision
* Hit Die changes to d12 (fear half-dragon sorcerers!)
* Wings (if base creature is size Large or larger)
* Breath weapon 6d8
* Immunity to one energy type
* Claws and bite (damage varies for size)
* Natural Armor bonus of +2
* I think they get DR 10/magic, but I'm not positive.

-z

 

[James McMurray]

Why would you fear half-dragon sorcerers more than Human ones? Sure they get +2 Cha and some more hit points, but they also gave up 3 levels of spellcasting. Instead of hitting you with a fireball at 6th level, they're hitting you with a Ray of Flame (or whatever the new 2nd level fire spell is in 3.5).

What's truly scary is a half-dragon fighter-type, because what they lose in BAB they (mostly) make up for in strength. They'll get fewer attacks, but at a higher to hit and damage.

I hope you're remembering correctly and they did level out the breath weapon damages. If they didn't, then there should definitely be different ECLs for different parent types.

And to the original poster: the LA of +3 doesn't contradict the CR of +2, as the two items are related but not matching. LA affects the characters CR, and will be higher when the race has abilities which are useful over a long period of time. CR is usually lower, because the creature doesn't have the screen time to truly abuse a power. For example, a character will get a ton of opportunities to breathe fire, but an enemy NPc will usually only get one.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Why would you fear half-dragon sorcerers more than Human ones?

Because of the hit points. Sure, the sorcerer loses three levels of spells, but those hit points add up. Using the Living Greyhawk method of giving full hit points at first level and (half HD +1) hit points at other levels, say a 10th level sorcerer has 4 + (9x3) = 31 hit points. A 7th level half dragon sorcerer has 12 + (6x7) = 54 hit points. That's a difference of 23 hit points--a pretty big deal.

So, the party fighter sees a human sorcerer. He charges and melees, maybe tries to start a grapple. Oops--that sorcerer can withstand the charge attack and has a +8 Str bonus, which should be enough to win a grapple check and inflict some serious damage on it's own.

Sure, a fighter benefits from Half Dragon--probably benefits more. But a half-dragon sorcerer is plenty scary too.

-z

 

[Dacileva]

Why would you fear half-dragon sorcerers more than Human ones? Sure they get +2 Cha and some more hit points,

It's now irrelevant, the player in question changed his mind... But I also wonder this. The hit die increase is totally irrelevant to class levels, according to the MM and to SvS... Class levels to a templated creature go on *after* the template was added.

And to the original poster: the LA of +3 doesn't contradict the CR of +2, as the two items are related but not matching. LA affects the characters CR, and will be higher when the race has abilities which are useful over a long period of time. CR is usually lower, because the creature doesn't have the screen time to truly abuse a power. For example, a character will get a ton of opportunities to breathe fire, but an enemy NPC will usually only get one.

I was actually mis-remembering the +2 from somewhere. FIIR where.

Anyway, while an enemy NPC will usually only get one opportunity to breathe fire, a PC half-dragon will also only get one opportunity to breathe fire, at least, per day. ^_^;;

Thanks for the help, everyone, even though it's unimportant now.

--
Nik (Dacileva)

 

[James McMurray]

Because of the hit points. Sure, the sorcerer loses three levels of spells, but those hit points add up. Using the Living Greyhawk method of giving full hit points at first level and (half HD +1) hit points at other levels, say a 10th level sorcerer has 4 + (9x3) = 31 hit points. A 7th level half dragon sorcerer has 12 + (6x7) = 54 hit points. That's a difference of 23 hit points--a pretty big deal.

But the loss of offensive power means he doesn't deal enough damage to warrant staying around that extra half-round. 23 Hit points is a lot , but then again so is 4+ 3rd level spells per day.

So, the party fighter sees a human sorcerer. He charges and melees, maybe tries to start a grapple. Oops--that sorcerer can withstand the charge attack and has a +8 Str bonus, which should be enough to win a grapple check and inflict some serious damage on it's own.

Given that grapple is BAB + Strength, and the half-dragon isn't large, and that sorcerers don't generally stock up on strength when assigning their original stats, I think at worst it would be an even up roll. However, the fighter has most likely put his highest stat in strength, thereby evening the odds a bt (16 Str vs. 18 Str). His BAB is also at least 4 points higher, meaning he still comes out ahead.

Sure, a fighter benefits from Half Dragon--probably benefits more. But a half-dragon sorcerer is plenty scary too.

-z

I disagree. Any + ECL race is painful for a spellcaster. And when that spellcaster is of a variety that only gets higher level spells at even levels, its even more painful.

 

[DM_Matt]

wrong thread...

 

[EricNoah]

Re: Re: 3.5e Half-Dragon?

From memory:

* LA +3
* Ability increases of +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Cha
* No size changes
* Darkvision and low light vision
* Hit Die changes to d12 (fear half-dragon sorcerers!)
* Wings (if base creature is size Large or larger)
* Breath weapon 6d8
* Immunity to one energy type
* Claws and bite (damage varies for size)
* Natural Armor bonus of +2
* I think they get DR 10/magic, but I'm not positive.

-z

Darned close! Natural armor is +4; does not get DR, add INT +2 to ability increases.