D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Ranger/Rogue combo effective?

[greycastle]

relatively simple question...

has the new ranger, made the chance for a Rogue/Ranger to become an incredibly effective Bounty Hunter? S/He can track, use weapons effectively, sneak attack, lots of skill points, enough HP to survive quite alot, free feats, evasion...and thats just if you take 3 levels of each class!

What would the most effective combination be however? and What race would 'benefit' most from such a combination?

 

[bret]

If you're not doing traps, you could argue that the Ranger alone is more effective at hiding and moving silently. The Ranger looks to be the best sneak in the game.

I'm really not sure that the sneak attack damage is worth the loss of BAB and hit points. You also miss out on some of the higher level ranger abilities such as Hide in Plain Sight that the rogue can't get.

 

[diaglo]

check out the characters in my sig. i'm playing a hin ranger/rogue currently. i've adopted the 3.11ed for Workgroups revisions.

 

[greycastle]

well, i guess ranger really is the 'better' choice since i'm not THAT intent on trap disabling...and ....no i guess disable device won't be on the ranger list...

Oh well...

What Race would seemingly be most effective of the standard and non standard races? (except human, as their simply good at everything, and no templates)

 

[mmu1]

well, i guess ranger really is the 'better' choice since i'm not THAT intent on trap disabling...and ....no i guess disable device won't be on the ranger list...

Oh well...

What Race would seemingly be most effective of the standard and non standard races? (except human, as their simply good at everything, and no templates)

Don't be fooled, Sneak Attack is worth every penny... If you play a "typical" Ranger (high Dex, light armor) you're basically getting conned into playing a fighter class using the kind of stats you might give a Rogue, and end up with someone who can sneak well, but does very little damage compared to a tank Fighter or a Sneak Attack using Rogue.

My personal favorite for a sneaky character with good combat ability and wilderness skills is a Barbarian/Rogue with a Track feat, but Ranger/Rogue works well too. In terms of race, halflings probably work out best if you're planning on using sneak attack rather then Strength to do your damage, (between the +2 Dex, +1 to hit for size and +1 to hit with thrown weapons, you get +3 to hit if you Sneak Attack with a thrown dagger, or +2 if you use some other missile weapon) but the races with natural Darkvision are also worth consideration, if you play in a game where the DM won't let you sneak up on someone while carrying a torch...

 

[Fenes 2]

The favored enemy may be more than the equal of sneak attack, especially if you are fighting a lot of humans and have taken those as favorite enemy (say as a bounty hunter). I may be in error, but I believe favored enemy damage bonus (up to +10) does not require the target to have lost its dexterity bonus, and I am nopt sure even armor of fortification helps against it (There is a rumor favored enemy may be worth it against undead now).

Heck, in a human-centric campaign the skill bonuses alone from favored enemy are very powerful.

 

[mmu1]

The favored enemy may be more than the equal of sneak attack, especially if you are fighting a lot of humans and have taken those as favorite enemy (say as a bounty hunter). I may be in error, but I believe favored enemy damage bonus (up to +10) does not require the target to have lost its dexterity bonus, and I am nopt sure even armor of fortification helps against it (There is a rumor favored enemy may be worth it against undead now).

Heck, in a human-centric campaign the skill bonuses alone from favored enemy are very powerful.

Favored Enemy and Sneak Attack are both abilities whose exact effectiveness is in the DM's hands and out of your control, but much less so for Sneak Attack, simply by the virtue of being able to use it against a much wider range of targets... You also do about three times the extra damage with Sneak Attack that you'll do with the new Favored Enemy, and I have yet to be in a game in which a Ranger got to use his Favored Enemy ability as often as the Rogue got to use Sneak Attack, never mind three times as often...

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Still I think the effective Rogue/Ranger combination has been reversed in 3.5e.

In 3e, Ranger 1/Rogue x was the effective combination. You got two weapon fighting, track, and a favored enemy for your rogue but the big thing was TWF.

In 3.5e, that can easily be accomplished without the ranger level--just spend a feat on TWF and you're good to go. Or, if you don't think you have enough feats, take a level of fighter. One level of ranger won't get you TWF so it's probably not worth it.

However, the 3.5e Rog 1/Ranger X combo will be pretty effective. The single level of rogue gives the ranger 1d6 sneak attack and the ability to find and disable traps. Sink all 8+ skill ranks into disable device and the ranger/rogue is now a skilled tracker and bounty hunter who can find traps too. (Of course, Rog 2 is attractive for evasion (why wait till level 9?) and Rog 4 will be attractive for uncanny dodge so Rog 4/Ranger x might be the favored multiclass).

 

[greycastle]

well...if a player is willing to not gain +10 favor bonus, or hide in plain site...and considering most campaigns will have more than enough humans...

a Ranger 15/Rogue 5 is already good
for one who only needs 3 favored enemies and +6 bonus, then a Rogue 7/ Ranger 13 is incredible...

from using 3.5 info and 3.0, you get

- 3 favored enemies (+6, +4, +2)
- sneak attack +4d6
- ability to sneak at best, disable traps, open locks etc well (and if using a homerule that you can take skills you know by advancing in any class) *though if rogue1/fighter 2 and take another level of fighter, you can advance rogue skills, but you still only get 2 + int bonus skill points per level*
- effective melee and ranged fighterish character
- the possible ability (if ranks are spent) to use wands and scrolls (though ineffectively :S)
- Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, 4 attacks per round (up to 7!!! if you take the two weapon fighting tree)

from those statistics alone, it seems effective...but what would i know...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

A good race for rangers and ranger/rogues is elf. A great race is wood elf (FR specific: FC Ranger, +2 Str +2 Dex, -2 Int, -2 Cha, -2 Con, some other minor changes afaik). The only thing you'll miss is the -2 Int, for Charisma won't play much of a role for you.