candidus_cogitens
Explorer
Keep in mind everyone that the difference between d8 and d10 is only an average of one HP per level. That's really not that much.
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D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Ranger but with d10. How to balance?
- Thread starter candidus_cogitens
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Difference between d10 and d8:
At 1st level its the difference between 8 hp and 10 hp, which is almost as good as toughness!
At level 20 its worth 21 hp (avg) which is as good as taking toughness 7 times!*
While it may not seem like a huge deal I think it is worth ~3 feats worth of class abilities (as I outlined above). Additionally, since we are altering base classes its always best to err on the side of caution, at least if you want less munchkin headaches/nightmares.
Technik
* Caution: Taking Toughness 7 times may make you look ridiculous at the gaming table if someone spies your character sheet.
At 1st level its the difference between 8 hp and 10 hp, which is almost as good as toughness!
At level 20 its worth 21 hp (avg) which is as good as taking toughness 7 times!*
While it may not seem like a huge deal I think it is worth ~3 feats worth of class abilities (as I outlined above). Additionally, since we are altering base classes its always best to err on the side of caution, at least if you want less munchkin headaches/nightmares.
Technik
* Caution: Taking Toughness 7 times may make you look ridiculous at the gaming table if someone spies your character sheet.
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candidus_cogitens
Explorer
So, if I just drop the spells, would that be unbalanced?
If I err on one side or the other, I would rather it be a weaker class than a stronger one.
If I err on one side or the other, I would rather it be a weaker class than a stronger one.
If you just remove the spells, the class will only become weaker from 4th but will be better from 1st. That means it will be much more attractive for dipping into for a few levels. I think it would be vetter to remove something from the first level(s) as well. How about removing the Good Reflex save?
Actually, if you want something more like the 3.0 ranger (I'm just guessing), how about:
+: d10 HD, Medium Armor Proficiency
-: Poor Reflex save, no Evasion, 4 sp/level
... even though it looks like a bad deal to me, it'll be at least as powerful as the 3.0 ranger.
Actually, if you want something more like the 3.0 ranger (I'm just guessing), how about:
+: d10 HD, Medium Armor Proficiency
-: Poor Reflex save, no Evasion, 4 sp/level
... even though it looks like a bad deal to me, it'll be at least as powerful as the 3.0 ranger.
comrade raoul
Explorer
Which, to be honest, ain't sayin' much.Jens said:
re
Hmmm...removing the spells. I think I might try that. Give them d10 hit points and remove the weapon feat path, replace it with bonus feats. Give them back Medium Armor proficiency. Then I would have a very good hunter fighter type. It wouldn't be Aragorn, but Aragorn was probably a Ranger/Paladin using a different magic system entirely, not to mention he was a hero of destiny with special abilities.
I even bet the new Ranger would better fit the typical warrior archetype found in books. Often the archetype in a book are very skilled as well as being a great fighter. I think I might step out on a limb and try to break away from the sacred cow version of the Ranger.
Hmmm...removing the spells. I think I might try that. Give them d10 hit points and remove the weapon feat path, replace it with bonus feats. Give them back Medium Armor proficiency. Then I would have a very good hunter fighter type. It wouldn't be Aragorn, but Aragorn was probably a Ranger/Paladin using a different magic system entirely, not to mention he was a hero of destiny with special abilities.
I even bet the new Ranger would better fit the typical warrior archetype found in books. Often the archetype in a book are very skilled as well as being a great fighter. I think I might step out on a limb and try to break away from the sacred cow version of the Ranger.
candidus_cogitens
Explorer
Jens raised a valid point: that removing the spells and boosting the HD makes the class stronger at lower levels.
What about something along these lines as a remedy?
SECRETS OF THE WILD [Class feature, ranger]
Rangers study the ways of wild animals so well that they can learn a few of their tricks.
Choose one of the following abilities upon reaching fourth level:
• Watchful as the Hawk. A fourth level ranger with 7 ranks of Knowledge (Nature) gains a bonus of +1 to Spot rolls for detecting hidden enemies in a natural setting. At eighth level, with 11 ranks of Knowledge (Nature), the bonus increases to +2; at twelfth level (15 ranks), +3; at sixteenth level (19 ranks), +4; and at 20th level (23 ranks), +5.
• Tenacious as the Wolf. A fourth level ranger with 7 ranks of Knowledge (Nature) gains +1 bonus to Survival rolls for recovering a lost trail (i.e., re-trying a failed tracking attempt). At eighth level, with 11 ranks of Knowledge (Nature), the bonus increases to +2; at twelfth level (15 ranks), +3; at sixteenth level (19 ranks), +4; and at 20th level (23 ranks), +5.
• Stealthy as the Fox. A fourth level ranger with 7 ranks of Knowledge (Nature) gains a +1 bonus to Move Silently checks when moving in a natural setting. At eighth level, with 11 ranks of Knowledge (Nature), the bonus increases to +2; at twelfth level (15 ranks), +3; at sixteenth level (19 ranks), +4; and at 20th level (23 ranks), +5.
Something like this would re-balance the higher levels and also help make up for the weakness of the class after swapping spells for the d10.
I admit that these bonuses are not particularly exciting. I'd be happy to accept suggestions.
What about something along these lines as a remedy?
SECRETS OF THE WILD [Class feature, ranger]
Rangers study the ways of wild animals so well that they can learn a few of their tricks.
Choose one of the following abilities upon reaching fourth level:
• Watchful as the Hawk. A fourth level ranger with 7 ranks of Knowledge (Nature) gains a bonus of +1 to Spot rolls for detecting hidden enemies in a natural setting. At eighth level, with 11 ranks of Knowledge (Nature), the bonus increases to +2; at twelfth level (15 ranks), +3; at sixteenth level (19 ranks), +4; and at 20th level (23 ranks), +5.
• Tenacious as the Wolf. A fourth level ranger with 7 ranks of Knowledge (Nature) gains +1 bonus to Survival rolls for recovering a lost trail (i.e., re-trying a failed tracking attempt). At eighth level, with 11 ranks of Knowledge (Nature), the bonus increases to +2; at twelfth level (15 ranks), +3; at sixteenth level (19 ranks), +4; and at 20th level (23 ranks), +5.
• Stealthy as the Fox. A fourth level ranger with 7 ranks of Knowledge (Nature) gains a +1 bonus to Move Silently checks when moving in a natural setting. At eighth level, with 11 ranks of Knowledge (Nature), the bonus increases to +2; at twelfth level (15 ranks), +3; at sixteenth level (19 ranks), +4; and at 20th level (23 ranks), +5.
Something like this would re-balance the higher levels and also help make up for the weakness of the class after swapping spells for the d10.
I admit that these bonuses are not particularly exciting. I'd be happy to accept suggestions.
Galethorn
First Post
Jack Daniel on the Wizard's D&D Boards made this d10 version of the 3.5e Ranger.
I'm using it right now in the campaign I'm in, and it's working out pretty well....I can sneak better than anyone but the rogue, I'm tougher than everyone but the barbarian, and I'm the best archer and the second best meleer in the group. Basically, it's a great class if you want to survive (and succeed) at front-line combat, as well as have some versatility, such as tracking, spell-casting, and stealth.
I'm using it right now in the campaign I'm in, and it's working out pretty well....I can sneak better than anyone but the rogue, I'm tougher than everyone but the barbarian, and I'm the best archer and the second best meleer in the group. Basically, it's a great class if you want to survive (and succeed) at front-line combat, as well as have some versatility, such as tracking, spell-casting, and stealth.
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